Olympique De Paris

[FrankOFile]

Haven't watched anything live up til now, but just saw Beth Shriever in the BMX cycling. She is sensational

Of all the sports added recently, BMX is a great addition and very exciting, both the racing and the freestyle.

Agree about Shriever, who blew her opponents away in the heats, she seemed to just be able to pedal faster than the others, though there's obviously a lot more to it than that. I think there were better opponents in the other heats but she looks like a gold medal in the waiting and good luck to her.

Her sister Pam was handy too.

[Hoover Attack]

Shame the boxing is somewhat overshadowed by the row in the women's competition about boxers who have failed sex tests being allowed to compete.

Italy's Angela Carini called a stop to her fight after 45 seconds against Algeria's Imane Khelif, with a suspected broken nose.

Disgraceful from the IOC.

Looks like the same broken nose that the manc copper suffered.

[Dunners]

This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

[Long slender neck]

Caster Semenya was a similar case wasnt it? And they appeared to have an unfair advantage.

[faldO]

This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

Unless I'm reading it wrong (or misunderstanding the point you're making) Nicola Adams is not saying Khelif is a trans woman.

Adams is saying Khelif was not born a biological woman and has always been biologically male. That's essentially the same as what Sharron Davies says.

The argument seems to be that just being born with female genitalia isn't the defining factor in making Khelif a biological woman, given the XY chromosomes and testosterone levels, and possibly other things (like no uterus, and/or internalised testes).

(This debate is probably better on the trans thread.)

[Currywurst and Chips]

Sad to see boarders defending biological men punching women

Dark days

[Hoover Attack]

Caster Semenya was a similar case wasnt it?

Yes, 'it' was.

[Dunners]

In a dimly lit corner of The Chequers, a lonely figure is sat at a table. The sound in the pub is low level murmuring by the regulars, the clinking of glasses, and Country House by Blur which has been on repeat play on the jukebox all day.

Through the gloom, and over a bottle of alcohol free beer, he glimpses at the bar staff through little piggy eyes.

He sighs, as he makes yet another attempt to sketch their likeness on his ipad, but every time they end up looking like Katy Perry with dodgy hands.

But then, all of a sudden, a haunting breeze blows through the pub, and carries with it a signal that is only detectable by this shadowy figure. He's felt a disturbance in the force.

He places his ipad down. Contemplates for a moment. And then picks it back up again and opens up his web browser.

Some people clearly need to be put right on a few points they are unsure of.

[faldO]

- no more posts from me on this subject, I promise.

[Max B Gold]

This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

This is what we get from generating hate.

Anyway this boxer has been battered by 5 women already so where is the advantage. A whining competitor gets a broken nose, greets about it and a witch hunt is born. FFS!!

Reminds me of the time my daughter battered the school bully (male). I was vewy, vewy pwoud of her

[Adz]

All the athletes in the Olympics are genetic freaks in one way or another, where do you draw the line? Phelps generated half the lactic acid of a normal person, should he have been banned? These tall basketballers and high jumpers should be banned, etc

[Long slender neck]

Draw the line at men vs women

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

Like King (or Queen) Arthur, I’ve returned to save this board at the hour when I’m most needed

*cracks knuckles as I actually sit in a brewery in Blackhorse lane with a non alcoholic beer*

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

I’ll start with an easy one

All the athletes in the Olympics are genetic freaks in one way or another, where do you draw the line? Phelps generated half the lactic acid of a normal person, should he have been banned? These tall basketballers and high jumpers should be banned, etc

There is one genetic advantage that, across virtually all sporting disciplines, results in faster, stronger and taller athletes. This genetic advantage is called “being male”.

Because it’s generally considered a good idea to recognise the potential for sporting excellence in the half of the population who do not possess this advantage of “being male”, we segregate many sports by sex.

As a result of this sex segregation, we have access to the world records in every sporting event for the category of people with the genetic advantage of “being male” and the category of those who do not have that advantage.

And, I suspect you don’t need me to finish this point, but I will do anyway - if we didn’t segregate so that the half of the population (let’s call them “female”) without male advantage - then in almost no sporting discipline would a female person be anywhere near elite level competition, let alone near a world record.

Regarding Michael Phelps (who is mentioned constantly any time this subject comes up - it’s an old chestnut at this point) - you’re confusing “advantage” with “unfair advantage”.

Sport is in itself a measure of ability, ability which is achieved through a combination of physical traits, training and dedication.

Some people have physical traits that are perfectly fair - there’s nothing unfair about someone being tall - that nevertheless result in disappointment for most 5foot2 people who would quite like to play in the NBA. Meanwhile an NBA player who fancied being a jockey in the Grand National would find himself sh*t out of luck. Sport measures fair advantages. I don’t think many people believe that Phelps’s physical traits are unfairly attained, I certainly haven’t seen it argued outside of the context of people arguing for male people in female sports

[Max B Gold]

But Phelps is a genetic mutation.

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

This post is incorrect, but unfortunately representative of what a lot of people think about the events yesterday, due to poor quality reporting and low level of understanding of the specifics and even of what different people mean by the words they use.

[faldO]

[Adz]

This is getting ridiculous. The situation with Imane Khelif is not the same as the trans rights issue. This isn't some bloke that has decided to live his true self whilst wearing a mini skirt and putting on a bit of lippy, and is demanding that we all play along with the fantasy under fear of ostracization.

Imane Khelif was born with female genitalia and with a medical condition that results in an XY chromosomes. This person has not "transitioned". It's a subtle, but important difference. There's still a debate to be had as to whether a person with XY chromosomes should be competing in women's boxing, but that's a different matter.

This post is incorrect, but unfortunately representative of what a lot of people think about the events yesterday, due to poor quality reporting and low level of understanding of the specifics and even of what different people mean by the words they use.

So you're saying she wasn't born with a vagina and brought up as a girl?

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

answered in a new thread, but suffice to say, you’re asking the wrong question there to get to meaningful answers

[The Reverend]

Great 10,000m men’s final this evening. New Olympic record. People running that far in 26 minutes is properly mind blowing. If you want an idea of how fast these athletes run, go into a gym and whack any treadmill up to the fastest setting it does. These guys run a whole 10km FASTER than that.

[Friend or fart]

There is a multitude of sports going on in Paris. When I watch the Beeb, most of it seems to be a bunch of pundits chatting about it, rather than seeing the athletes in action.

[o-no]

There is a multitude of sports going on in Paris. When I watch the Beeb, most of it seems to be a bunch of pundits chatting about it, rather than seeing the athletes in action.

That's cos the money grabbing IOC sold the main rights to Discovery+

It's all about the money.

[o-no]

I’ll start with an easy one

All the athletes in the Olympics are genetic freaks in one way or another, where do you draw the line? Phelps generated half the lactic acid of a normal person, should he have been banned? These tall basketballers and high jumpers should be banned, etc

There is one genetic advantage that, across virtually all sporting disciplines, results in faster, stronger and taller athletes. This genetic advantage is called “being male”.

Because it’s generally considered a good idea to recognise the potential for sporting excellence in the half of the population who do not possess this advantage of “being male”, we segregate many sports by sex.

As a result of this sex segregation, we have access to the world records in every sporting event for the category of people with the genetic advantage of “being male” and the category of those who do not have that advantage.

And, I suspect you don’t need me to finish this point, but I will do anyway - if we didn’t segregate so that the half of the population (let’s call them “female”) without male advantage - then in almost no sporting discipline would a female person be anywhere near elite level competition, let alone near a world record.

Regarding Michael Phelps (who is mentioned constantly any time this subject comes up - it’s an old chestnut at this point) - you’re confusing “advantage” with “unfair advantage”.

Sport is in itself a measure of ability, ability which is achieved through a combination of physical traits, training and dedication.

Some people have physical traits that are perfectly fair - there’s nothing unfair about someone being tall - that nevertheless result in disappointment for most 5foot2 people who would quite like to play in the NBA. Meanwhile an NBA player who fancied being a jockey in the Grand National would find himself sh*t out of luck. Sport measures fair advantages. I don’t think many people believe that Phelps’s physical traits are unfairly attained, I certainly haven’t seen it argued outside of the context of people arguing for male people in female sports

I get your point that it's not an unfair advantage, but it appears that being freakishly tall and strong is a pre-requisite in many elite sports these days. Us short-arses can't all be jockies!

[CEB2ElectricBoogaloo]

Well, quite. But sport is actually about finding out who is best at something, and being the best at something sporty is usually about a combination of natural aptitude, physical traits, and level of commitment.

You’re discussing different levels of “fairness”; it’s not “fair” in terms of “the hand that life has dealt you” that a person who wishes they were seven inches taller so they could be a better basketball player can not do so.

But it is fair in terms of “a basketball team will pick the best basketball players on merit”.

What needs determining then is what categories do we create in order to ensure the best possible fairness?

What you need to understand when using fairness (or lack thereof) as a means to justify male participation in female sport, is that that’s actually an argument not for the participation of specific males in the female category, but an argument *against* sex segregation in sport at all.


You see, the most obvious way of demonstrating the inherent unfairness of Khelife’s participation, is that without a female category, he would not be able to participate. As a male athlete, he is not anywhere near the required standard for an elite athlete. His only current means of athletic achievement is by competing in a category where he has male advantage.

[Dunners]

I get your point that it's not an unfair advantage, but it appears that being freakishly tall and strong is a pre-requisite in many elite sports these days. Us short-arses can't all be jockies!

We need to start lobbying the IOC to include Boardin' as a category in future events.