Travis interview

[Chief crazy horse]

Tea is very expensive as well.

[Scuba Diver]

Excellent thread.

Of course, everything has to be paid for...
When it comes to "gratitude" towards T&T for "saving us", I am in the indebted camp for sure.

However, each season I can see the club lurching towards "Americanisation" - the act of attempting to bleed the fanbase as much as it will stand (and I don't feel they've even started yet on that pretext).

Travis cited Boston fans paying $200 per game. In the US "sports fans" are just viewed as simpletons to be bled dry. They barely rank even as low as mere "customers", like the 60k that watch AFC/THFC/WHUFC, they're just cash-cows. They're just idiots to be laughed at whilst the owner's trudge to the bank with heavy pockets.

Even now, the ideal (to the board) LOFC fan buys 3 replica shirts and a tracksuit etc etc. The Orient fanbase has been criticised for not buying the food within the ground....The inferrence being "you're bad customers".

The whole season-ticket capping/waiting list thing is a barely veiled attempt to "lose" legacy support since; they don't spend enough money. Based on what I've read on here last few days, "legacy support" has been lost because people either didn't move quick enough to retain their ST, or because they're not internet-savvy enough to know of the new nuances of the process.

Those people (it seems) will not be back and no doubt the current incarnation of the clubs' upper echelons care not. The message being "if you're not switched on enough to renew your season ticket by mid-May, you're not really wanted, let alone cherished, at Leyton Orient - no matter how long you've stood by the club"

However, the club need to be careful - in their haste to shoe-in people on "waiting lists" they need to understand that *if you're on a waiting list in 24/25, then you likely Weren't around (or at least weren't a season ticket holder) in the recent dark days) or you'd be a season ticket holder anyway.

Those on "waiting lists" are interested now because the "game is good" - the club is on the up, it's going forwards, their interest has been piqued sufficiently to join a waiting list. We've had 2 recent promotions.

Football can change very quickly though. Last season Forest Green were playing Sheff Wed and Derby. Next season it's Braintree and Wealdstone for them.
If Orient were to down-turn, I wonder how many of those the club seem so keen to woo currently would watch in the National League v Braintree?... With the "legacy support" diminished, the club could be in a precarious position.

T&T are smart enough to know that they cannot charge people £50 per game (at the moment) to watch LOFC. However I feel that if they could, they would.

[gshaw]

“I get complaints by some my other American owners, that we spend too much on players”

That's a strange quote given we're hardly big spenders in context of our league budget and rarely pay transfer fees. What's the benchmark against for an appropriate level of spend?

[WilliamTell]

There's a consistent theme across American investment in British sport where they think we massively underpay for the 'product' compared to what they can charge in the states and could be fleeced for much more. There's a reason so many dollars are pouring into English football at the moment, the exchange rate has become very favourable to yanks and they smell an opportunity to make a lot of money out of a league they think is still commercially underperforming compared to what it could be.

I think Travis and Teague broadly 'get' the club, but the other owners are almost certainly going to be a lot more hard headed about getting an eventual return on investment and minimizing losses in the meantime. Think that tension will probably be easy ish to ignore until the question of a new ground really comes to a head. That's going to be an incredible amount of their money gambled on the chance that it takes us up a level and makes us more attractive to sell, or more capable of a tilt at the prem in the distant future.

Good post.

Hate the complete commercialisation of everything, to the extreme, in the US. At a baseball stadium you’d struggle to get a beer for under about $15. It’s insane and shouldn’t be a model for this country. But with more yank investment, it will be before long

Boston Celtics game this weekend $19.87 for a 16oz beer.

[BiggsyMalone]

Another thing they need to be careful is alienating those who grew sick of the Premier League and chose to give their money to a lower league team. As mentioned by others really well, this adoption of an American model makes Orient no different to those above them, its just a smaller scale.

There’s plenty of non league clubs in the borough who will value my money a lot more. Walthamstow FC is a prime example.

[BoniO]

I spent all my working life in the computer industry and, as such, working for American companies, latterly at a senior level.
I spent a lot of my time explaining to my US colleagues and bosses that what works in the US doesn’t necessarily work in the UK or Europe. However, consistently, they insisted on their “one size fits all” approach. They were basically incapable of considering “another way” of working that might be better aligned to different cultures. It was their way or the highway. I chose, or was offered, the highway on several occasions. Retired now and I don’t dislike Americans but I bloody hate American Corporates. Travis needs to remember where he came from I feel.

[Scuba Diver]

Another thing they need to be careful is alienating those who grew sick of the Premier League and chose to give their money to a lower league team. As mentioned by others really well, this adoption of an American model makes Orient no different to those above them, its just a smaller scale.

There’s plenty of non league clubs in the borough who will value my money a lot more. Walthamstow FC is a prime example.

BM, I agree and it's certainy starting to "feel" like we (LOFC) are a vehicle for a "business project" wherein, you're in for the ride, or you're not.

I know of a couple at least whom after decades supporting LOFC have essentially abandoned 'the model' for Walthamstow, and there may be others.. They will not be back.

No doubt others will castigate me for this, and I will take on the chin if so, but I really resented the bullying mantra of "renew by early (now mid) May, or your (season ticket) seat will be given away".
The language used was awful.
It infers that "we don't care how long you've been here, or how much time (or money) you've given to the club- you are barely a number and unless you "jump" when we say "jump", this (admittedly, business) relationship is over.

I nearly decided not to bother, and go and support my local (non league) club, who without doubt need all the support they can get. In the end, I did renew, albeit completely at the last minute and only with the help of benevolent ticket office staff who are known to me.

No doubt some will chastise me with "you're not a real fan" etc.
That's fine.
*If they Are a real fan, then prepare to pay and keep paying in order to earn that self-imposed label. Messrs T & T (of course) would prefer to only deal with "real fans" so congratulations to you.

[Hoover Attack]

Another thing they need to be careful is alienating those who grew sick of the Premier League and chose to give their money to a lower league team. As mentioned by others really well, this adoption of an American model makes Orient no different to those above them, its just a smaller scale.

There’s plenty of non league clubs in the borough who will value my money a lot more. Walthamstow FC is a prime example.

Walthamstow specifically must be horrific at the minute, full of hipsters of all ages who think it’s ‘cool’ to watch step 4 football.


But yeah, agreed with the sentiment.

[BiggsyMalone]

Another thing they need to be careful is alienating those who grew sick of the Premier League and chose to give their money to a lower league team. As mentioned by others really well, this adoption of an American model makes Orient no different to those above them, its just a smaller scale.

There’s plenty of non league clubs in the borough who will value my money a lot more. Walthamstow FC is a prime example.

Walthamstow specifically must be horrific at the minute, full of hipsters of all ages who think it’s ‘cool’ to watch step 4 football.


But yeah, agreed with the sentiment.

I agree with the crowd, it is full of middle class hipsters who are new to the area. It’s a decent few hours out though.

[Hoover Attack]

Not just a few hours, loads of them go away as well

[CharlieO]

Excellent thread.

Of course, everything has to be paid for...
When it comes to "gratitude" towards T&T for "saving us", I am in the indebted camp for sure.

However, each season I can see the club lurching towards "Americanisation" - the act of attempting to bleed the fanbase as much as it will stand (and I don't feel they've even started yet on that pretext).

Travis cited Boston fans paying $200 per game. In the US "sports fans" are just viewed as simpletons to be bled dry. They barely rank even as low as mere "customers", like the 60k that watch AFC/THFC/WHUFC, they're just cash-cows. They're just idiots to be laughed at whilst the owner's trudge to the bank with heavy pockets.

Even now, the ideal (to the board) LOFC fan buys 3 replica shirts and a tracksuit etc etc. The Orient fanbase has been criticised for not buying the food within the ground....The inferrence being "you're bad customers".

The whole season-ticket capping/waiting list thing is a barely veiled attempt to "lose" legacy support since; they don't spend enough money. Based on what I've read on here last few days, "legacy support" has been lost because people either didn't move quick enough to retain their ST, or because they're not internet-savvy enough to know of the new nuances of the process.

Those people (it seems) will not be back and no doubt the current incarnation of the clubs' upper echelons care not. The message being "if you're not switched on enough to renew your season ticket by mid-May, you're not really wanted, let alone cherished, at Leyton Orient - no matter how long you've stood by the club"

However, the club need to be careful - in their haste to shoe-in people on "waiting lists" they need to understand that *if you're on a waiting list in 24/25, then you likely Weren't around (or at least weren't a season ticket holder) in the recent dark days) or you'd be a season ticket holder anyway.

Those on "waiting lists" are interested now because the "game is good" - the club is on the up, it's going forwards, their interest has been piqued sufficiently to join a waiting list. We've had 2 recent promotions.

Football can change very quickly though. Last season Forest Green were playing Sheff Wed and Derby. Next season it's Braintree and Wealdstone for them.
If Orient were to down-turn, I wonder how many of those the club seem so keen to woo currently would watch in the National League v Braintree?... With the "legacy support" diminished, the club could be in a precarious position.

T&T are smart enough to know that they cannot charge people £50 per game (at the moment) to watch LOFC. However I feel that if they could, they would.

Category A games in the Gallery were £50 last season.

[Cheshunto]

Not just a few hours, loads of them go away as well

I think it’s a similar situation at Dulwich Hamlet. A couple of my Cheshunt supporting mates went there last season, amongst a crowd of over 3,000, and overheard a couple of home fans discussing wine bars locally and which ones offer a certain brand of French wine.

[Reflecto]

It's not just at LOFC, football has become more corporate and expensive generally. As we have a small stadium and wish to stay in L1 and try for the Championship it has to be funded. Its tough for those on lower incomes...

We need more investors to fund a new stadium, but in the process T&T will likely lose control of the club.

The next few seasons will be very interesting and unpredictable. Up the Os

[Orient Punxx]

There's a consistent theme across American investment in British sport where they think we massively underpay for the 'product' compared to what they can charge in the states and could be fleeced for much more. There's a reason so many dollars are pouring into English football at the moment, the exchange rate has become very favourable to yanks and they smell an opportunity to make a lot of money out of a league they think is still commercially underperforming compared to what it could be.

I think Travis and Teague broadly 'get' the club, but the other owners are almost certainly going to be a lot more hard headed about getting an eventual return on investment and minimizing losses in the meantime. Think that tension will probably be easy ish to ignore until the question of a new ground really comes to a head. That's going to be an incredible amount of their money gambled on the chance that it takes us up a level and makes us more attractive to sell, or more capable of a tilt at the prem in the distant future.

Good post.

Hate the complete commercialisation of everything, to the extreme, in the US. At a baseball stadium you’d struggle to get a beer for under about $15. It’s insane and shouldn’t be a model for this country. But with more yank investment, it will be before long

Boston Celtics game this weekend $19.87 for a 16oz beer.

Plus tip.

[Cheshunto]

I can only think that wages in the USA must be much higher than here to be able to afford USD 60 to park your car or USD20 for a beer. British fans would never pay those prices.
They are accurate though, I was in NYC two years ago and a coffee inc tip was USD7 and a McDonalds was USD15
American tourists must find the UK a bargain.

[RedDwarf 1881]

Excellent thread.

Of course, everything has to be paid for...
When it comes to "gratitude" towards T&T for "saving us", I am in the indebted camp for sure.

However, each season I can see the club lurching towards "Americanisation" - the act of attempting to bleed the fanbase as much as it will stand (and I don't feel they've even started yet on that pretext).

Travis cited Boston fans paying $200 per game. In the US "sports fans" are just viewed as simpletons to be bled dry. They barely rank even as low as mere "customers", like the 60k that watch AFC/THFC/WHUFC, they're just cash-cows. They're just idiots to be laughed at whilst the owner's trudge to the bank with heavy pockets.

Even now, the ideal (to the board) LOFC fan buys 3 replica shirts and a tracksuit etc etc. The Orient fanbase has been criticised for not buying the food within the ground....The inferrence being "you're bad customers".

The whole season-ticket capping/waiting list thing is a barely veiled attempt to "lose" legacy support since; they don't spend enough money. Based on what I've read on here last few days, "legacy support" has been lost because people either didn't move quick enough to retain their ST, or because they're not internet-savvy enough to know of the new nuances of the process.

Those people (it seems) will not be back and no doubt the current incarnation of the clubs' upper echelons care not. The message being "if you're not switched on enough to renew your season ticket by mid-May, you're not really wanted, let alone cherished, at Leyton Orient - no matter how long you've stood by the club"

However, the club need to be careful - in their haste to shoe-in people on "waiting lists" they need to understand that *if you're on a waiting list in 24/25, then you likely Weren't around (or at least weren't a season ticket holder) in the recent dark days) or you'd be a season ticket holder anyway.

Those on "waiting lists" are interested now because the "game is good" - the club is on the up, it's going forwards, their interest has been piqued sufficiently to join a waiting list. We've had 2 recent promotions.

Football can change very quickly though. Last season Forest Green were playing Sheff Wed and Derby. Next season it's Braintree and Wealdstone for them.
If Orient were to down-turn, I wonder how many of those the club seem so keen to woo currently would watch in the National League v Braintree?... With the "legacy support" diminished, the club could be in a precarious position.

T&T are smart enough to know that they cannot charge people £50 per game (at the moment) to watch LOFC. However I feel that if they could, they would.

If we want the best players we can get and achieve more success we're going need to pay for it . It's just the way of the world .

[Max B Gold]

Excellent thread.

Of course, everything has to be paid for...
When it comes to "gratitude" towards T&T for "saving us", I am in the indebted camp for sure.

However, each season I can see the club lurching towards "Americanisation" - the act of attempting to bleed the fanbase as much as it will stand (and I don't feel they've even started yet on that pretext).

Travis cited Boston fans paying $200 per game. In the US "sports fans" are just viewed as simpletons to be bled dry. They barely rank even as low as mere "customers", like the 60k that watch AFC/THFC/WHUFC, they're just cash-cows. They're just idiots to be laughed at whilst the owner's trudge to the bank with heavy pockets.

Even now, the ideal (to the board) LOFC fan buys 3 replica shirts and a tracksuit etc etc. The Orient fanbase has been criticised for not buying the food within the ground....The inferrence being "you're bad customers".

The whole season-ticket capping/waiting list thing is a barely veiled attempt to "lose" legacy support since; they don't spend enough money. Based on what I've read on here last few days, "legacy support" has been lost because people either didn't move quick enough to retain their ST, or because they're not internet-savvy enough to know of the new nuances of the process.

Those people (it seems) will not be back and no doubt the current incarnation of the clubs' upper echelons care not. The message being "if you're not switched on enough to renew your season ticket by mid-May, you're not really wanted, let alone cherished, at Leyton Orient - no matter how long you've stood by the club"

However, the club need to be careful - in their haste to shoe-in people on "waiting lists" they need to understand that *if you're on a waiting list in 24/25, then you likely Weren't around (or at least weren't a season ticket holder) in the recent dark days) or you'd be a season ticket holder anyway.

Those on "waiting lists" are interested now because the "game is good" - the club is on the up, it's going forwards, their interest has been piqued sufficiently to join a waiting list. We've had 2 recent promotions.

Football can change very quickly though. Last season Forest Green were playing Sheff Wed and Derby. Next season it's Braintree and Wealdstone for them.
If Orient were to down-turn, I wonder how many of those the club seem so keen to woo currently would watch in the National League v Braintree?... With the "legacy support" diminished, the club could be in a precarious position.

T&T are smart enough to know that they cannot charge people £50 per game (at the moment) to watch LOFC. However I feel that if they could, they would.

If we want the best players we can get and achieve more success we're going need to pay for it . It's just the way of the world .

Except of course it can't be achieved with the current cost base, stadium capacity and investment levels.

[RedDwarf 1881]

Excellent thread.

Of course, everything has to be paid for...
When it comes to "gratitude" towards T&T for "saving us", I am in the indebted camp for sure.

However, each season I can see the club lurching towards "Americanisation" - the act of attempting to bleed the fanbase as much as it will stand (and I don't feel they've even started yet on that pretext).

Travis cited Boston fans paying $200 per game. In the US "sports fans" are just viewed as simpletons to be bled dry. They barely rank even as low as mere "customers", like the 60k that watch AFC/THFC/WHUFC, they're just cash-cows. They're just idiots to be laughed at whilst the owner's trudge to the bank with heavy pockets.

Even now, the ideal (to the board) LOFC fan buys 3 replica shirts and a tracksuit etc etc. The Orient fanbase has been criticised for not buying the food within the ground....The inferrence being "you're bad customers".

The whole season-ticket capping/waiting list thing is a barely veiled attempt to "lose" legacy support since; they don't spend enough money. Based on what I've read on here last few days, "legacy support" has been lost because people either didn't move quick enough to retain their ST, or because they're not internet-savvy enough to know of the new nuances of the process.

Those people (it seems) will not be back and no doubt the current incarnation of the clubs' upper echelons care not. The message being "if you're not switched on enough to renew your season ticket by mid-May, you're not really wanted, let alone cherished, at Leyton Orient - no matter how long you've stood by the club"

However, the club need to be careful - in their haste to shoe-in people on "waiting lists" they need to understand that *if you're on a waiting list in 24/25, then you likely Weren't around (or at least weren't a season ticket holder) in the recent dark days) or you'd be a season ticket holder anyway.

Those on "waiting lists" are interested now because the "game is good" - the club is on the up, it's going forwards, their interest has been piqued sufficiently to join a waiting list. We've had 2 recent promotions.

Football can change very quickly though. Last season Forest Green were playing Sheff Wed and Derby. Next season it's Braintree and Wealdstone for them.
If Orient were to down-turn, I wonder how many of those the club seem so keen to woo currently would watch in the National League v Braintree?... With the "legacy support" diminished, the club could be in a precarious position.

T&T are smart enough to know that they cannot charge people £50 per game (at the moment) to watch LOFC. However I feel that if they could, they would.

If we want the best players we can get and achieve more success we're going need to pay for it . It's just the way of the world .

Except of course it can't be achieved with the current cost base, stadium capacity and investment levels.

I agree and that's why there has been talk of moving to a new stadium and trying to generate new investment .

[Hoover Attack]

I can only think that wages in the USA must be much higher than here to be able to afford USD 60 to park your car or USD20 for a beer. British fans would never pay those prices.
They are accurate though, I was in NYC two years ago and a coffee inc tip was USD7 and a McDonalds was USD15
American tourists must find the UK a bargain.

[one o in huntingdon]

Perhaps there is a niche for an old style football club, nostalgia is a big earner these days.
Half time scoreboards with the letters in the programme, peanut bloke walking round standing terraces.
Tinned burgers with really smelly boiled onions, bovril and stinky bogs.
Smell of ciggies drifting in the air and the odd timely bit of light hearted abuse for everyone on the pitch.

Wasn't it great, so much better than the sanitised "experience" these days and occasionally saw some good football too.

[Cheshunto]

Another thing they need to be careful is alienating those who grew sick of the Premier League and chose to give their money to a lower league team. As mentioned by others really well, this adoption of an American model makes Orient no different to those above them, its just a smaller scale.

There’s plenty of non league clubs in the borough who will value my money a lot more. Walthamstow FC is a prime example.

Totally agree Biggsy, but they also risk losing older fans to the new Sky TV offering which is going to saturate our screens with wall to wall Footy, 8 days a week etc. I still enjoy going to the stadium, but midweek games are always attended by a smaller crowd and if it’s an expensive experience many will watch on TV, whether on Sky or one of those Dodgy sticks.

My local non league team Cheshunt FC have seen crowds increase by over 100% from disenchanted Spurs fans who can’t afford the prices at WHL.