The Gaza genocide

[Long slender neck]

It might be, but they started it.

[Max B Gold]

It might be, but they started it.

Err, wrong. It was all really kicked off in 1948 but not by Hamas (who didn't exist back then). It was the European Zionist colonists to blame.

[Dunners]

I blame the Ottomans.

[Dunners]

And I reckon the Persians need looking at too.

And Jesus. Everything was ticking along just fine before he came along with his fancy ideas of there being another way.

[faldO]

I believe we have now unanimously agreed that what is happening in Gaza IS a genocide and that the counter arguments of "But Hamas" and "youse are all jew hating antisemites" has not survived scrutiny.

Zionists are Nazis, Netanyahu is Hitler, Hamas are freedom fighters, Israel is an apartheid state, but please don't call us anti-Semites - it's everything about Israel that we hate, not the Jews.

[Hoover Attack]

It might be, but they started it.

Jesus. Can't the mods have a word with this dolt?

[Admin]

Hey fellas, when you next go on an anti Israel demo, don't forget to take your Nazi flags

The Zionists are the new Nazis. At least 2 of the current Israeli government have got criminal charges for terrorism in their CV

I'm no fan of Israel response but comparable references to Nazis are plain offensive. Anyone doing this does nothing to support the argument against Israel's actions after October 7th.

[Admin]

It might be, but they started it.

Only if you consider the clock to have started on 7th October. Which of course, it didn't.

[Hoover Attack]

Hey fellas, when you next go on an anti Israel demo, don't forget to take your Nazi flags

The Zionists are the new Nazis. At least 2 of the current Israeli government have got criminal charges for terrorism in their CV

I'm no fan of Israel response but comparable references to Nazis are plain offensive. Anyone doing this does nothing to support the argument against Israel's actions after October 7th.

Difficult to argue with this.

Even if you do consider the comparison to be valid, other less offensive baddies are available to choose from.

[Long slender neck]

It might be, but they started it.

Only if you consider the clock to have started on 7th October. Which of course, it didn't.

Don't really follow it, but seemed like quite an escalation.

[Max B Gold]

I believe we have now unanimously agreed that what is happening in Gaza IS a genocide and that the counter arguments of "But Hamas" and "youse are all jew hating antisemites" has not survived scrutiny.

Zionists are Nazis, Netanyahu is Hitler, Hamas are freedom fighters, Israel is an apartheid state, but please don't call us anti-Semites - it's everything about Israel that we hate, not the Jews.

Is Zionism as practised in Israel a racist endeavour? Yes, with many of the hallmarks of a fascist state.

Is Netanyhou Hitler? No.

Is Netanyhou a genocidal fascist? Yes

Are Hamas freedom fighters? Yes they are fighting to hold on to their homeland from European colonists.

Are their terrorist methods correct or acceptable? No, but Israel knew that when they encouraged and funded their growth when using them to drive a wedge between the Palestinians and Fatah.

Is Israel an Apartheid state? Yes Palestinians do not have the same rights as Jews. Witness Gaza and its similarity to the Bantus of South African apartheid

Are those who oppose Zionism and genocide antisemites? No, in fact many jews oppose the mass slaughter of innocent civilians.

[Dunners]

It might be, but they started it.

Only if you consider the clock to have started on 7th October. Which of course, it didn't.

Don't really follow it, but seemed like quite an escalation.

The Hamas attack on 7th October wasn't an "escalation". It was a sophisticcated, coordinated maneuver, sponsored by Tehran, to destabilise the normalisation process between Israel and the Saudis. Which it has to an extent.

They wanted to provoke Israel into a response, which it has duly obliged. Given that Hamas retains significant support from the local population and is fully entrenched within civilian infrastructure, a military response will always result in significant civilian collateral. So Tehran also made sure that the Palestinian propaganda machine was primed to capitalise on the publicity.

7th October was also to test the USA's resolve to maintain interest in the region. Hezbollah and other proxies were on notice that this could be an opportunity to launch an all-out assault on Israel. But the US placing its carrier strike force in the region soon put paid to that notion. So, aside from the odd token gesture rocket attack, Iran et al are happy to leave Hamas and the Palestinian people to their fate, having served their cruel purpose.

As for Israel, it is doing exactly what its enemies want it to. I suspect that this war will begin to wind down by the summer. But Israel and its people will pay a price for this. The consequences will be felt for decades.

[Hoover Attack]

So Israel got played by the baddies?

Right oh.

[Hoover Attack]

I suspect that this war will begin to wind down by the summer. But Israel and its people will pay a price for this. The consequences will be felt for decades.

Prices are being paid right now, you seem to have overlooked that.

[BoniO]

So Israel got played by the baddies?

Right oh.

Yeah, I thought it sounded a bit like poor old Israel simply fell for it.

[Max B Gold]

Only if you consider the clock to have started on 7th October. Which of course, it didn't.

Don't really follow it, but seemed like quite an escalation.

The Hamas attack on 7th October wasn't an "escalation". It was a sophisticcated, coordinated maneuver, sponsored by Tehran, to destabilise the normalisation process between Israel and the Saudis. Which it has to an extent.

They wanted to provoke Israel into a response, which it has duly obliged. Given that Hamas retains significant support from the local population and is fully entrenched within civilian infrastructure, a military response will always result in significant civilian collateral. So Tehran also made sure that the Palestinian propaganda machine was primed to capitalise on the publicity.

7th October was also to test the USA's resolve to maintain interest in the region. Hezbollah and other proxies were on notice that this could be an opportunity to launch an all-out assault on Israel. But the US placing its carrier strike force in the region soon put paid to that notion. So, aside from the odd token gesture rocket attack, Iran et al are happy to leave Hamas and the Palestinian people to their fate, having served their cruel purpose.

As for Israel, it is doing exactly what its enemies want it to. I suspect that this war will begin to wind down by the summer. But Israel and its people will pay a price for this. The consequences will be felt for decades.

Except of course it isn't a "war" at all. It is the systematic liquidation of the people of Gaza by the strongest military power in the region, backed and funded by Western leaders.

[Dunners]

I suspect that this war will begin to wind down by the summer. But Israel and its people will pay a price for this. The consequences will be felt for decades.

Prices are being paid right now, you seem to have overlooked that.

No I didn't:

"So, aside from the odd token gesture rocket attack, Iran et al are happy to leave Hamas and the Palestinian people to their fate, having served their cruel purpose."

[Dunners]

So Israel got played by the baddies?

Right oh.

I'm not letting them off. Israel is just as complicit as other actors involved in this conflict.

[Dunners]

Don't really follow it, but seemed like quite an escalation.

The Hamas attack on 7th October wasn't an "escalation". It was a sophisticcated, coordinated maneuver, sponsored by Tehran, to destabilise the normalisation process between Israel and the Saudis. Which it has to an extent.

They wanted to provoke Israel into a response, which it has duly obliged. Given that Hamas retains significant support from the local population and is fully entrenched within civilian infrastructure, a military response will always result in significant civilian collateral. So Tehran also made sure that the Palestinian propaganda machine was primed to capitalise on the publicity.

7th October was also to test the USA's resolve to maintain interest in the region. Hezbollah and other proxies were on notice that this could be an opportunity to launch an all-out assault on Israel. But the US placing its carrier strike force in the region soon put paid to that notion. So, aside from the odd token gesture rocket attack, Iran et al are happy to leave Hamas and the Palestinian people to their fate, having served their cruel purpose.

As for Israel, it is doing exactly what its enemies want it to. I suspect that this war will begin to wind down by the summer. But Israel and its people will pay a price for this. The consequences will be felt for decades.

Except of course it isn't a "war" at all. It is the systematic liquidation of the people of Gaza by the strongest military power in the region, backed and funded by Western leaders.

That's still war.

"Given that Hamas retains significant support from the local population and is fully entrenched within civilian infrastructure, a military response will always result in significant civilian collateral."

[Dunners]

Lots of cope pouring out here.

[Max B Gold]

The Hamas attack on 7th October wasn't an "escalation". It was a sophisticcated, coordinated maneuver, sponsored by Tehran, to destabilise the normalisation process between Israel and the Saudis. Which it has to an extent.

They wanted to provoke Israel into a response, which it has duly obliged. Given that Hamas retains significant support from the local population and is fully entrenched within civilian infrastructure, a military response will always result in significant civilian collateral. So Tehran also made sure that the Palestinian propaganda machine was primed to capitalise on the publicity.

7th October was also to test the USA's resolve to maintain interest in the region. Hezbollah and other proxies were on notice that this could be an opportunity to launch an all-out assault on Israel. But the US placing its carrier strike force in the region soon put paid to that notion. So, aside from the odd token gesture rocket attack, Iran et al are happy to leave Hamas and the Palestinian people to their fate, having served their cruel purpose.

As for Israel, it is doing exactly what its enemies want it to. I suspect that this war will begin to wind down by the summer. But Israel and its people will pay a price for this. The consequences will be felt for decades.

Except of course it isn't a "war" at all. It is the systematic liquidation of the people of Gaza by the strongest military power in the region, backed and funded by Western leaders.

That's still war.

"Given that Hamas retains significant support from the local population and is fully entrenched within civilian infrastructure, a military response will always result in significant civilian collateral."

BS

[faldO]

Are Hamas freedom fighters? Yes they are fighting to hold on to their homeland from European colonists.

Are their terrorist methods correct or acceptable? No, but Israel knew that when they encouraged and funded their growth when using them to drive a wedge between the Palestinians and Fatah.

Claiming that Hamas are freedom fighters and then saying that their methods are unacceptable is a strange position to take, given that Hamas's "freedom" is every last Jew killed and no Israel in the Middle East.

And then blaming Israel for Oct 7th.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Lots of cope pouring out here.

Can see why you hadn't got involved in the thread.

[BoniO]

Lots of cope pouring out here.

Can see why you hadn't got involved in the thread.

Not his finest hour to be fair.

[Max B Gold]

Are Hamas freedom fighters? Yes they are fighting to hold on to their homeland from European colonists.

Are their terrorist methods correct or acceptable? No, but Israel knew that when they encouraged and funded their growth when using them to drive a wedge between the Palestinians and Fatah.

Claiming that Hamas are freedom fighters and then saying that their methods are unacceptable is a strange position to take, given that Hamas's "freedom" is every last Jew killed and no Israel in the Middle East.

And then blaming Israel for Oct 7th.

I'm not claiming anything of the sort. I was reporting a fact. They are freedom fighters who use terrorist methods. Their political ends are unacceptable. I don't support them.

I would like to see a secular socialist Israel where all are equal and the Palestinians have their stolen property restored to them.

SIGH, I thought we had worked our way through this silly propaganda point that Israel are not to blame for anything. The oppression and daily murder of Palestinians by Israel was going on long before 7 Oct.