The trans debate

[Currywurst and Chips]

All it says was it was comparable?

Surely it is insofar as they’re both liquids

[CEB]

All it says was it was comparable?

Surely it is insofar as they’re both liquids

That too, but what it’s saying is “comparable” is “induced milk in women” - *not* “the stuff coming out of men’s nipples that someone has decided is called milk” - the decision to refer to secretions from men as “milk” was a political one made elsewhere in order to be gender neutral, and the reporting of it adheres to that principle, and applies it to “male milk” as a mark of inclusivity, not because male milk actually has any significant evidence demonstrating that it is “comparable” to natural milk from breastfeeding women.


(Again, note how clear language is important to even beginning to be able to understand the various aspects)

[Long slender neck]

Trans woman found guilty of murder

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-o ... e-68360122

Also put a cat in a blender

[Long slender neck]

No mention that they're trans in The Guardian though

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... in-carreno

Cat-killing woman guilty of murdering man as he walked home in Oxford

[CEB]

“The defendant, of Crotch Crescent”

Incredible stuff

[Dunners]

The Guardian should be congratulated for sparing this cruel and violent psychopath from the trauma of being misgendered.

[CEB]

Quick question - does anyone here think it’s legitimate for the media to report crimes committed by male people who say they’re women, as being committed by women, and for their crimes to be recorded by the justice system as being committed by women?

Because if you don’t think it’s OK for that to happen, you’re a TERF. Just you might be a terf who doesn’t fully understand that that’s what self ID would enshrine in law

[CEB]

[CEB]

No mention that they're trans in The Guardian though

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... in-carreno

Cat-killing woman guilty of murdering man as he walked home in Oxford

It says that he’s transgender now - did they edit it or did you miss it?

Out of interest, why did you call him “they”?

[Long slender neck]

Updated it I reckon

Sammy Gecsoyler and agency
Fri 23 Feb 2024 19.35 GMT
First published on Fri 23 Feb 2024 15.42 GMT

[CEB]

Interesting that there’s no reason given - Guardian policy is to clarify when they’ve edited, what they edited and why they edited

[Long slender neck]

I didn't really put any thought into it when I called them 'they'. I'm not someone who would deliberately use unwanted pronouns and I don't know much about this persons trans life.

[Long slender neck]

Interesting that there’s no reason given - Guardian policy is to clarify when they’ve edited, what they edited and why they edited

Perhaps I missed it.

[CEB]

Well he’s a man who killed a cat and a man

[Long slender neck]

Seem to have pissed off others

[Dunners]

When I first read that article it was littered with her/she pronouns when describing this man. The Guardian has since edited without explanation which, as CEB points out, is contrary to their own editorial policy.

[CEB]

People talk about the trans debate as being a right wing culture war, but when you see the comments underneath the guardian’s post, it’s clear that there’s nobody at all defending the guardian; the decision to validate the delusions of murderers (made because to fail to do so would delegitimise any man’s claim to be a woman) is something that media outlets have decided to impose upon a general public who do not accept this at all.

And it has an impact, because even on this page of this thread, you can see LSN inadvertantly avoiding calling a male murderer and animal torturer “he”, because he’s somehow been persuaded that doing so is unethical; The upshot of the guardian doing it to murderers is that there’s then a forced imposition of an arbitrary middle ground where “well I won’t do it for *murderers*, but I suppose men who aren’t violent criminals might be women - that’s a fair compromise right?”

At the risk of my veil slipping; no male people are women.

[Story of O]

Thinking about it, have we not always sometimes used "they" instead of she/he in conversations

[CEB]

When we don’t know the sex of the person, or we are talking about a hypothetical person, yes.

The issue with wrong-sex pronouns or neutral pronouns within this discourse is normalisation of the idea that people can opt out of their sex, with it being rude to maintain that they haven’t and that that sometimes matters

[CEB]

Good thread

[Proposition Joe]

Aside from all the other salient points here, I can't stop thinking about how much the unfortunate victim looks like a Spanish Peter (Pedro?) Sutcliffe.

[CEB]

That’s a great shout. And a less wild eyed Charles Manson, too. So much so that when reading the story I had to remind myself he was the victim

[CEB]

Caca was right about the first version of the story

[CEB]

A man who murdered a man and live streamed himself putting a cat he’d killed into a blender has been sentenced.
The BBC lies that this man is a woman, and refers to him as “she” and “her” without any reference to them being terms used at the murderers request, due to a trans identity.

For avoidance of doubt - this isn’t a man who has had any sort of operation, isn’t a man so utterly distressed by his sex that he’s taken steps to remove/alter his male genitals (which wouldn’t change his sex anyway) - this also isn’t a man who has gone through a legal process to change his legal sex. This is a *man*, no ambiguity about it.

Who does it suit to record and report male crimes like this as female crimes?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-o ... e-68401335

[Long slender neck]

Jurors were told how Blake, formerly known as Alice Wang,

Strange to include this line but not what he was also previously known as