The trans debate

[CEB]

C they just want to feed their child and contribute to their care

But they can’t because they’re male.

[CEB]

The question that that raises then, is this: what reasons might a male person have for wanting to breastfeed a child?
Is it more likely that
A: his inner soul has tits and so the poor womanly essence of the vulnerable woman trapped in a male body yearns to be able to nourish her child, sharing the burden with her life partner

or

B: he’s a f***ing pervert who would have been recognised unambiguously as a f***ing pervert until around 2015 when progressives lost their minds on this stuff

Hmmmm it’s a toughie

Seems an odd response to kind of gloss over the - I would have thought - unquestionably inherent misogyny within health care and historic family dynamics.

I would argue that the background misogyny is in any focus on promoting the possibility of men feeding hormone juice from their nipples to children to validate the men, while actual women who are struggling to breast feed don’t yet get the help they need.

[Story of O]

So if a trans woman can produce breast milk, then surely they can give birth

[Proposition Joe]

The question that that raises then, is this: what reasons might a male person have for wanting to breastfeed a child?
Is it more likely that
A: his inner soul has tits and so the poor womanly essence of the vulnerable woman trapped in a male body yearns to be able to nourish her child, sharing the burden with her life partner

or

B: he’s a f***ing pervert who would have been recognised unambiguously as a f***ing pervert until around 2015 when progressives lost their minds on this stuff

Hmmmm it’s a toughie

Seems an odd response to kind of gloss over the - I would have thought - unquestionably inherent misogyny within health care and historic family dynamics.

I would argue that the background misogyny is in any focus on promoting the possibility of men feeding hormone juice from their nipples to children to validate the men, while actual women who are struggling to breast feed don’t yet get the help they need.

I think you're missing the point, although you are of course correct about that latter issue.

[CEB]

I possibly am, I’m not sure what you’re getting at?

[Rich Tea Wellin]

The veil slips

[CEB]

Lol, yes the veil slips, I finally reveal that I think that men who want to validate their sense of self by having a baby suck hormone juice from their nipples are a bit iffy.

It’s often quite hilarious to think that if six years ago I’d said “eventually, trans activists will demand that men who think their women should have the right to breast feed and resources should be allocated to support that to happen” people like RTW would have said “don’t be ridiculous”, but once it happens, he is incredibly eager to agree that of course it’s a good thing.

Genuinely laughable.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

The fact that you couldn’t fathom a man might actually want to share the load, or help nurture their own baby. But rather, they must be a “f*cking pervert”, says more about you and a very clear blind spot you have, then I ever could.

[CEB]

As we’ve already established, men don’t offer to breast feed because
1: they can’t
2: they aren’t inclined to

So a man who wants to be a woman for his own validation is inherently likely to offer to want to breastfeed (which he can’t) because it suits him. Not because it’s good for his baby, not because it’s good for his partner.

By all means look into the experiences of women who are married to heterosexual men with a trans identity. I suspect you will not come out of doing so with quite such a stupidly naive take

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Did you miss the hypothetical bit or were you too desperate to jump in?

[CEB]

Did you breastfeed your kid?

[CEB]

“Did you miss the hypothetical bit” is genuinely hilarious when I’m discussing the actual reality of trans activism and the demands of specific men who claim to be women. Sorry for not conducting a debate with your imaginary version.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Did you breastfeed your kid?

I would have if I could have

[Hoover Attack]

So a man who wants to be a woman for his own validation is inherently likely to offer to want to breastfeed (which he can’t) because it suits him. Not because it’s good for his baby, not because it’s good for his partner.

Based on absolutely nothing, I would expect this to be the usual reason, rather than anything pervy. (Although I'm pretty sure you've mentioned a case previously where it was very, very pervy).

[Rich Tea Wellin]

“Did you miss the hypothetical bit” is genuinely hilarious when I’m discussing the actual reality of trans activism and the demands of specific men who claim to be women. Sorry for not conducting a debate with your imaginary version.

Wasn’t mine. Someone mentioned that men wouldn’t even if they could and you jumped to “f*cking perverts”. Maybe, like just once every 200 posts, consider if you have a blind spot, maybe a bias that colours your views that you eagerly preach

[CEB]

Edit - double post

[CEB]

You’re right Hoover Attack, but also kind of naive about it - I wasn’t joking when I suggested RTW should maybe read some experiences of women who have been married to heterosexual men who came out as trans.

Would it shock you to hear that it emerges as compulsive behaviour, often sexual in nature, and that after getting initial support and understanding from female partners, those men often escalate, and act as if they believe they are “better” women than their partners, and seek to find ways of demonstrating that to be the case?

@RTW lol, I’m sorry, I really wish you were right and I had a blind spot. I know my stuff on this I’m afraid. And I know it literally *because* I was an instinctive supporter of it who realised slowly how f***ed up it is.

You are a casual observer wanting to be kind. Fair play to you for that, but suffice to say I’m comfortable with my assertions

[Rich Tea Wellin]

That’s it the , case closed. Every trans (and potentially every man???) is a pervert at heart. They just need to have a kid before it surfaces.
It sounds a lot like the trope about gay men all being paedos. But you probably already know this

[CEB]

It really does sound a lot like that trope! It’s almost as if casually making analogies between gay men and trans rights has prevented due scrutiny of trans rights activism, and allowed people to assume they’re exactly the same when they’re not! Now, maybe go back about two years on this thread to where I addressed that the first time, numb nuts

[CEB]

Did you know that trans women as a demographic sexually offend at a rate *higher* than the male population in general? Does that give you pause?

[Rich Tea Wellin]

As I say, the veil slips.

[CEB]

I’d be far more ashamed to be ignoring a fact about a demographic of male people who sexually offend at a rate higher than males in general, but who are part of a civil rights movement that seeks to convince society that they should be treated as if female in all circumstances.

[CEB]

“Damn it was bad enough when you were just making an argument I couldn’t follow, now you’re making claims about numbers that can be verified!!! Wow, what a bigot”


I wonder if RTW would have anything to say about the fact I’ve just asserted?

[Proposition Joe]

To be clear, I'm not promoting the idea that men should be encouraged to breastfeed, or that others should do so. I have no idea if men's titties are just as beneficial for children as women's, I've never heard that suggested until this evening and can't be bothered doing any further reading on it.

What I suggested was that if - big IF and purely hypothetical - it had ever been proven that men could breastfeed just as safely and beneficially, it was probably pretty unlikely that those making the discovery (very likely to be men) would have made much of a song and dance about it, cos it really wouldn't suit menfolk. And you seemed strangely dismissive of that suggestion, seeing it instead through a TRA lens, which wasn't really where it came from.

[CEB]

Fair enough - that’s because I’ve seen TRA’s push the breastfeeding thing hard for a while now, and seen first hand accounts of abused wives being pressured to let their husbands get involved in breastfeeding. Grim stuff that, considering the subject is trans focused, made that aspect less obvious