RientO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:53 am
Seems like they only have 8 days left...
But then the EFL announced that Dale hadn't shown proof of funds for the season, which has led to our first four fixtures being suspended, and a notice that we will be removed from the Football League after 134 years unless this is satisfied by August 22. Next Thursday.
Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fi ... gJYj1ud.99
Dale appears to be a wrong 'un who's as bad - if not worse(!) - than our old Italian mate.
In truth, Bury have been in trouble for decades. They went into administration 15 years ago - and that was after they'd been hawked around for sale. They never got bought then because there were better opportunities about - Stockport - and look what happened to them. It's happened already at Bury - the club appear to owe £12m on the ground. It's money that they have probably partially used to cover trading losses, but in the main its money they've never seen. Another piece of asset stripping by a property developer.
Unless someone of means and with a sense of integrity comes along in the next few days then it looks very grim for Bury. A crying and preventable shame.
LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:28 pm
Dale appears to be a wrong 'un who's as bad - if not worse(!) - than our old Italian mate.
Being fair to the Italian (and I really don't want to be), he didn't seem to want to destroy Orient at the outset, it was that he was so utterly incompetent that it almost led to the Os demise. The Bury owners appear more malevolent with 138% interest rate loans and so on.
Last edited by RientO on Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
STEPHEN DAWSON (Bury midfielder):Listen, chairman. Let's cut to the chase. You haven't bothered to pay us in months. You've constantly lied to everyone. You've not shown facts to the EFL. You haven't shown that you've got the money to sustain this club. For months you've kept quiet. You've sacked good people at the club. You've not paid anyone in months. I'm on the verge of losing everything. I've had to listen to what you've had to say for months. You can try to say you've saved the club. Get your money and leave the club. Or otherwise, this club is no more.
STEVEN DALE (Bury owner): Ask Mr Dawson: did he receive, from the beginning, 50 per cent of his wages?
DAWSON: Excuse me, 50 per cent from who? We've had to...
DALE: Have the PFA paid you, up to the CVA, 50 per cent of your wages? Yes or no?
DAWSON: They paid us two months' wages.
DALE: No, they paid you four months.
DAWSON: Steve, I'm not going to row.
DALE: Just answer: yes or no.
DAWSON: We've received two months off the PFA, which is a loan. You have paid me once in six months. I do not lie.
DALE: Let's get to the chase here. The PFA paid, on my request, that I would repay the money to them, which we've agreed. It's been agreed and signed. (You've had) 50 per cent of your wages every month since the catastrophe started. Is that right or is that wrong?
DAWSON: Lies.
DALE: Sorry?
DAWSON: Lies. He's got no money.
DALE: There's no requirement to throw money at them (today). It's been agreed in the CVA to take all the players and we've agreed with the PFA to completely pay the players up within the CVA. That has been dealt with.
DAWSON: (exasperated grown) It's lies.
DALE (addressing host Jim White). Jim, you arrange for me to meet Simon Jordan and I'll give him all the proof to back up what I'm saying. I'm not getting into slanging matches.
JIM WHITE:Is it not true that Simon Jordan asked you to show him your evidence of proof of funds and you've still to do that?
DAWSON: He can't do it.
DALE: Look, you've got a man on the line who's just like the people online who just keep saying the same stuff over and over.
WHITE: Give the players and fans some hope here. You're still the owner.
DALE: I'm fully aware of that. By saving the club from bankruptcy from Stewart Day's era, all I've got is stick. I tell you something, it's no wonder chairmen walk away from clubs.
MARTIN KEOWN: Steve, can I just ask. I'm just looking for a solution now. Is it not in the best interests if you step aside? Do you own the land the ground sits on? Are you holding onto that for any reason? Are you hoping this club dies a death so you can sweep up and sell the land?
DALE: What a stupid remark. Can you hear yourself? Oh yeah, there really is (a financial benefit) - making a fortune out of it!
WHITE: Stephen Dawson has come on, he's a desperate man struggling to feed his family.
DALE: Do you truly believe that remark? That Mr Dawson is struggling to feed his family and getting thrown out of his house.
WHITE: I believe he's in financial crisis.
DALE: Everything with you guys is blow it to the maximum. Mr Dawson is not going to get thrown out of his house. He can feed his family.
DAWSON: That sums up everything. It sums up the man and human being he is. How does he know that I'm not getting kicked out?
DALE: They are allegations by you.
DAWSON: If I lose my job next week then my house is gone. Simple. He's just told lies for six months. He doesn't pay anyone. If he has the chance to sell I'm begging him.
DALE: Ask Mr Dawson, was he paid last month in full by me. Since the CVA, have I paid you every month?
DAWSON: Lies. And I can prove it.
DALE: No, I said to you: since the CVA, have you been paid every month by me?
DAWSON: No.
DALE: The club will not close. Fact. I'm the one who's not sleeping, trying to save it from a catastrophe. Well let's just watch this space and I'll prove it. I'll get Jill Neville to send you a letter: she's paid that man every month since the CVA. A lot of people will eat their words when this is sorted.
DALE: Have the PFA paid you, up to the CVA, 50 per cent of your wages? Yes or no?
DAWSON: They paid us two months' wages.
DALE: No, they paid you four months.
....
DAWSON: We've received two months off the PFA, which is a loan.
50% of four months wages is two months' wages. And as stated it's a loan from the PFA. Which has to be repaid! But Dale ain't paying the wages.
If my employer stopped paying my wages, I wouldn't be getting a loan, I would be gone.
Orient_Man_And_Boy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:34 pm
Hell, we thought we were miffed when FB didn't speak to us. Does this guy exhibit complete contempt for anyone and everyone?
By the look of it FB didn`t have a clue what he was doing. Dale looks like he is on another level. In a bad way.
Bergen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:43 pm
Club secretary for the last 30 years, Jill Neville, has left her role this afternoon and will not return under the current ownership.
Is she anything to do with Gary and Phil who I believe come from bury.if so they should be putting their money in bury not salford
You live in hope that no other fans would have to go what we've gone through. Blackpool were on already on a slippery slope so they didn't really count. Now we have seen Notts County & Bury dragged towards the edge by owners barely fit to be called that. Macclesfield could be considered a third. Without government intervention this will never stop. The authorities - controlled by the big clubs - do not care enough to concern themselves with it. Their fans don't care enough either.
There are scores of "big" clubs within small but sizeable communities where the football club is one of 2 or 3 key components to the local society's well being. Bury FC is an example of this. Kill the club; put another nail in the community coffin.
The government has let football, the national game, self govern for too long. Its threatened to take control from the FA through financial sanctions for years. Its about time it acted in the only way the FA will respond, by withdrawing financial support. It would force the FA into action to protect the fan base against the sort of abuses we and many others have borne witness to.
LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:37 pm
You live in hope that no other fans would have to go what we've gone through. Blackpool were on already on a slippery slope so they didn't really count. Now we have seen Notts County & Bury dragged towards the edge by owners barely fit to be called that. Macclesfield could be considered a third.
There are more than those mentioned. Add Bolton and Coventry for starters. Could be a whole division of clubs at risk. Could be like dominos. Once one goes...
LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:37 pm
You live in hope that no other fans would have to go what we've gone through. Blackpool were on already on a slippery slope so they didn't really count. Now we have seen Notts County & Bury dragged towards the edge by owners barely fit to be called that. Macclesfield could be considered a third. Without government intervention this will never stop. The authorities - controlled by the big clubs - do not care enough to concern themselves with it. Their fans don't care enough either.
There are scores of "big" clubs within small but sizeable communities where the football club is one of 2 or 3 key components to the local society's well being. Bury FC is an example of this. Kill the club; put another nail in the community coffin.
The government has let football, the national game, self govern for too long. Its threatened to take control from the FA through financial sanctions for years. Its about time it acted in the only way the FA will respond, by withdrawing financial support. It would force the FA into action to protect the fan base against the sort of abuses we and many others have borne witness to.
The solution is? We all sympathise for sure. What is the answer to the financial issues clubs face?
LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:37 pm
You live in hope that no other fans would have to go what we've gone through. Blackpool were on already on a slippery slope so they didn't really count. Now we have seen Notts County & Bury dragged towards the edge by owners barely fit to be called that. Macclesfield could be considered a third. Without government intervention this will never stop. The authorities - controlled by the big clubs - do not care enough to concern themselves with it. Their fans don't care enough either.
There are scores of "big" clubs within small but sizeable communities where the football club is one of 2 or 3 key components to the local society's well being. Bury FC is an example of this. Kill the club; put another nail in the community coffin.
The government has let football, the national game, self govern for too long. Its threatened to take control from the FA through financial sanctions for years. Its about time it acted in the only way the FA will respond, by withdrawing financial support. It would force the FA into action to protect the fan base against the sort of abuses we and many others have borne witness to.
The solution is? We all sympathise for sure. What is the answer to the financial issues clubs face?
I wish I had all the answers! The problem that's being faced are errant owners. The government could provide a framework via a regulator to help solve that. The deeper problem is of ongoing solvency. The financial system is skewed too much towards the top of the pyramid - we all know that - but there is far less assistance for the cost of promotion and relegation in the subsequent divisions. That's one way.
Another is to have patron clubs - where premier clubs have a minor club they "sponsor" through player loans. Some see that as selling out - but at the lowest levels clubs are already selling out by closing academies. A third way, which pushes talent down the system and so provides funding, is to limit youth numbers at senior clubs. They ship loads in just to sift through and keep the best. Many are lost to the game as a result.
LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:37 pm
You live in hope that no other fans would have to go what we've gone through. Blackpool were on already on a slippery slope so they didn't really count. Now we have seen Notts County & Bury dragged towards the edge by owners barely fit to be called that. Macclesfield could be considered a third. Without government intervention this will never stop. The authorities - controlled by the big clubs - do not care enough to concern themselves with it. Their fans don't care enough either.
There are scores of "big" clubs within small but sizeable communities where the football club is one of 2 or 3 key components to the local society's well being. Bury FC is an example of this. Kill the club; put another nail in the community coffin.
The government has let football, the national game, self govern for too long. Its threatened to take control from the FA through financial sanctions for years. Its about time it acted in the only way the FA will respond, by withdrawing financial support. It would force the FA into action to protect the fan base against the sort of abuses we and many others have borne witness to.
The solution is? We all sympathise for sure. What is the answer to the financial issues clubs face?
The fact is the clubs pay their players too much, and I include Orient in that.
Paying players 50 to a 100 k a year on gates of less than 5000 is insane.
It will happen over and over again when owners get bored and stop funding the losses.
What are Orient projected to lose this year?1m.
Madness.
LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:37 pm
You live in hope that no other fans would have to go what we've gone through. Blackpool were on already on a slippery slope so they didn't really count. Now we have seen Notts County & Bury dragged towards the edge by owners barely fit to be called that. Macclesfield could be considered a third. Without government intervention this will never stop. The authorities - controlled by the big clubs - do not care enough to concern themselves with it. Their fans don't care enough either.
There are scores of "big" clubs within small but sizeable communities where the football club is one of 2 or 3 key components to the local society's well being. Bury FC is an example of this. Kill the club; put another nail in the community coffin.
The government has let football, the national game, self govern for too long. Its threatened to take control from the FA through financial sanctions for years. Its about time it acted in the only way the FA will respond, by withdrawing financial support. It would force the FA into action to protect the fan base against the sort of abuses we and many others have borne witness to.
Why should the government get involved?
It’s the clubs fault for overpaying their players.
LittleMate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:37 pm
You live in hope that no other fans would have to go what we've gone through. Blackpool were on already on a slippery slope so they didn't really count. Now we have seen Notts County & Bury dragged towards the edge by owners barely fit to be called that. Macclesfield could be considered a third. Without government intervention this will never stop. The authorities - controlled by the big clubs - do not care enough to concern themselves with it. Their fans don't care enough either.
There are scores of "big" clubs within small but sizeable communities where the football club is one of 2 or 3 key components to the local society's well being. Bury FC is an example of this. Kill the club; put another nail in the community coffin.
The government has let football, the national game, self govern for too long. Its threatened to take control from the FA through financial sanctions for years. Its about time it acted in the only way the FA will respond, by withdrawing financial support. It would force the FA into action to protect the fan base against the sort of abuses we and many others have borne witness to.
The solution is? We all sympathise for sure. What is the answer to the financial issues clubs face?
The fact is the clubs pay their players too much, and I include Orient in that.
Paying players 50 to a 100 k a year on gates of less than 5000 is insane.
It will happen over and over again when owners get bored and stop funding the losses.
What are Orient projected to lose this year?1m.
Madness.
If income determined salaries then there is insufficient money to support even modest squads, semi-pro would result. On Saturday we would be watching the local plumber and butcher play. May as well pack it in and go over Hackney Marshes.
Like it or not football exists due to the money provided by the likes of Teague and Travis.
Most of the time it works. Sometimes it don’t and teams like Bury suffer.
I would like to see more of the premier league money drip down to the clubs who ultimately provide the players they need to thrive.a few weeks salary for some players would help keep smaller clubs going and the supply of tomorrow’s superstars coming.
Disoriented wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:21 pm
Bury well and truly fecked sadly.
Yes sadly I agree with you 100%, come on Disoriented jump on a train to them and give the owner a lambasting, it really would be a shame to loose them.
Byways1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:04 pm
The fact is the clubs pay their players too much, and I include Orient in that.
Paying players 50 to a 100 k a year on gates of less than 5000 is insane.
It will happen over and over again when owners get bored and stop funding the losses.
What are Orient projected to lose this year?1m.
Madness.
Orient lose money every year and that is with umpteen partners and sponsors contributing.
Owners can use the assets of the club as collateral for loans that allow them to extract money from the club.
And nothing can be done as they are all limited companies, mostly private.
From this article around 20% of clubs below championship level have serious finance issues. https://www.accountancydaily.co/one-fiv ... difficulty
If Bury go, wouldn’t surprise me if a few others do.
