Israel

[Dunners]

Anti-Semitic trope or just an innocent cuddly toy?

I don’t get it?

There was some outrage recently, when St Greta of Thunberg was photographed with a cuddly toy octopus in the background. Apparently, there's an old anti-Semitic trope depicting Jews as octopi with their tentacles reaching into all aspects of our lives.

St Greta apologised, but also claimed that it was just a coping toy sometimes used by people with autism. I have no idea myself, but then I don't really care. I'm just here for the biscuits.

[Hoover Attack]

Is anyone else aware of this 'trope'?

[Dunners]

It was certainly the first I had heard about it. But some super helpful people on Twitter/X helped to put us all right on a few points we were unsure of.

[Daily Express bot]

Is anyone else aware of this 'trope'?

Started in Nazi Germany, as a cartoon 1938. All these rubbish claims of it being an innocent coincidence and coping mechanism in Greta’s case is bull as it is rather odd that those depicted seem to be in the same distinctive turquoise colour as the original cartoon. I am not going to post the cartoon on line as I don’t want to replicate it.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Does seem more than a coincidence tbh

[Hoover Attack]

I'm googling but really not coming up with anything. This was the first thing I found, but it appears to refer to Prussia and Austria/Hungary.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/galle ... n-pictures

[Friend or faux]

Looks like I am going to have stop paying my power provider!

[Hoover Attack]

Whereas googling Octopus fidget toy brings up millions of websites, all selling those reversible teddy things.

You realise it sounds conspiraloony, right?

[Proposition Joe]

Does seem more than a coincidence tbh

I know everyone on UC is a genius but the fact they looked 6 months into the future and brought on their mascot especially to make a point about events that had yet to occur marks them out as truly special guys.

[Dunners]

That's what they want you to think!

[Tuffers#2]

There goes my Orient shirted Octopus Poppy badge idea for next November.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Does seem more than a coincidence tbh

I know everyone on UC is a genius but the fact they looked 6 months into the future and brought on their mascot especially to make a point about events that had yet to occur marks them out as truly special guys.

Forgot there’s only been trouble in the region since October

[Hoover Attack]

Forgot there’s only been trouble in the region since October

THAT'S what they want you to think.

[Proposition Joe]

Does seem more than a coincidence tbh

I know everyone on UC is a genius but the fact they looked 6 months into the future and brought on their mascot especially to make a point about events that had yet to occur marks them out as truly special guys.

Forgot there’s only been trouble in the region since October

Well I don't remember social media making wild claims that octopi were antisemitic before then so would still be a strange coincidence and an incredible feat of future telling.

[CEB]

Back in July, the guardian removed a Martin Rowson cartoon in which he depicted an exaggerated, darkened skin version of Richard Sharp leaving the BBC with his possessions in a Goldman sachs box, the contents of which were a Rishi Sunak puppet and an octopus

[faldO]

I know everyone on UC is a genius but the fact they looked 6 months into the future and brought on their mascot especially to make a point about events that had yet to occur marks them out as truly special guys.

Forgot there’s only been trouble in the region since October

Well I don't remember social media making wild claims that octopi were antisemitic before then so would still be a strange coincidence and an incredible feat of future telling.

I think you're probably right, it's a coincidence, especially since the episode was recorded in March. And I don't think octopuses should be off limits as cuddly toys just because of an antisemitic association, especially in a benign context.

However, it's not a recent social media invention. The "octopus trope" goes back to 1938, as noted above by Lenny. It is more usually depicted as tentacles grabbing or smothering something, like the globe in its original 1938 incarnation, which was meant to signify a Jewish conspiracy to control the world.

[Dunners]

They would say this now, wouldn't they?

[Proposition Joe]

No, I realise the trope has been referenced before, particularly in fairly grim propaganda cartoons (although I've seen people pointing out that accusations of the 'octopus tentacles' have also been used for various groups believed to be pulling strings or having influence everywhere, not just Jews). But the cuddly toy stuff is very much recent, as far as I am aware, happy to be corrected but I think the Greta pic was the first time anyone seriously suggested this was a thing.

[Dunners]

Can we still eat octopi?

[Currywurst and Chips]

Maybe the students were just fans of niche Japanese animated films

[Daily Express bot]

Forgot there’s only been trouble in the region since October

Well I don't remember social media making wild claims that octopi were antisemitic before then so would still be a strange coincidence and an incredible feat of future telling.

I think you're probably right, it's a coincidence, especially since the episode was recorded in March. And I don't think octopuses should be off limits as cuddly toys just because of an antisemitic association, especially in a benign context.

However, it's not a recent social media invention. The "octopus trope" goes back to 1938, as noted above by Lenny. It is more usually depicted as tentacles grabbing or smothering something, like the globe in its original 1938 incarnation, which was meant to signify a Jewish conspiracy to control the world.

You noticed the lady student in the University Challenge picture above is wearing Palestinian flag colours?

[CEB]

My take is that Greta is highly unlikely to have done it to signal allegiance to antisemitic conspiracy theories, but that once things take on a symbolic meaning - even if that meaning is initially based on wrongheaded leaps - future instances by others are less likely to be innocent.
Just as the weird white supremacy hand gesture thing eventually became about arseholes smugly being like “lol triggered by a hand gesture!!”, after something enters the public consciousness, adoption of loaded imagery by design occupies an area of plausible deniability, and so it starts to become incumbent on people to avoid using the symbols in question if they want to make it unambiguous that they are not signalling a belief

[Proposition Joe]

Well I don't remember social media making wild claims that octopi were antisemitic before then so would still be a strange coincidence and an incredible feat of future telling.

I think you're probably right, it's a coincidence, especially since the episode was recorded in March. And I don't think octopuses should be off limits as cuddly toys just because of an antisemitic association, especially in a benign context.

However, it's not a recent social media invention. The "octopus trope" goes back to 1938, as noted above by Lenny. It is more usually depicted as tentacles grabbing or smothering something, like the globe in its original 1938 incarnation, which was meant to signify a Jewish conspiracy to control the world.

You noticed the lady student in the University Challenge picture above is wearing Palestinian flag colours?

She's wearing a coat sold in Zara. Are they jewhaters now too?

[faldO]

You noticed the lady student in the University Challenge picture above is wearing Palestinian flag colours?

Yes, but if you look at this article: https://deadline.com/2023/11/university ... 235630887/ you can see where the jacket is advertised and I think it's a stretch to says it's in the Palestinian flag colours. It's similar, but not the same.

Who knows what was in her mind, or in Greta's. I don't think it's conclusive, and I'm giving them both the benefit of the doubt.

[Proposition Joe]

My take is that Greta is highly unlikely to have done it to signal allegiance to antisemitic conspiracy theories, but that once things take on a symbolic meaning - even if that meaning is initially based on wrongheaded leaps - future instances by others are less likely to be innocent.
Just as the weird white supremacy hand gesture thing eventually became about arseholes smugly being like “lol triggered by a hand gesture!!”, after something enters the public consciousness, adoption of loaded imagery by design occupies an area of plausible deniability, and so it starts to become incumbent on people to avoid using the symbols in question if they want to make it unambiguous that they are not signalling a belief

She should indeed have had the sense and foresight to avoid using the symbol 5 months before Greta had one in a photo.