Israel

[Dunners]

I was just typing something about a cease-fire and negotiations but Max is there already.

Reuters reported there were attempts at dialogue using Qatar and Turkey as intermediaries but Israel subsequently denied this.

Qatar and Turkey are not exactly trusted third parties in this. Qatar allows Hamas leaders to reside there in luxury, and Erdoğan has close ties to the Muslim Brotherhood (which contributed to the formation of Hamas).

[Proposition Joe]

Israel demands 1 Million Palestinians to evacute the north of Gaza. Who or what the hell do they think they are ? U.N calls it damaging. Is the World going to watch a Genocide ?

The consequences of tying in anti Zionism to anti semitism. Silence.

Its a strange thing but he worst antisemites are the Zionists. They have brought violence against their fellow Jews on to the streets of Israel.

Apart from mista's reply (which I don't think you've addressed) this kind of got lost earlier, but this is an awful comment. You can address the policies of the Netanyahu government and how they have inflamed the situation in Gaza over the past years without reducing it to "the Jews are to blame for Jews dying" and calling certain Jews antisemites.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Lol at LSN and CEB - go into Gaza and just kill Hamas

Asking for people to come up with what they should do, I’d be interested to know how bombing of civilians, especially as Hamas apparently doesn’t care about civilians, is ‘stopping Hamas’?

[Mistadobalina]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... dont-stop/

This is why I get really uncomfortable with use of the term Zionist as a pejorative. It's the same language used by actors like Iran to mobilise islamic extremist responses to the actions of the Israeli state and weaponises the concept of Israel as a legitimate state to fuel a never ending religious war between Islam and Judaism. This narrative justifies to extremists in the region and in the west that Israel is an innately evil country that deserves to be wiped off the face of the earth, with blowback for Jewish people across the world as supposed legitimate targets for that anger.

Do I find Israel's actions abhorrent? Yes. But there needs to be a path for them to walk it back. Language matters and every escalation of a us vs them mentality makes the likelihood of peace even less likely.

[Mistadobalina]

Lol at LSN and CEB - go into Gaza and just kill Hamas

Asking for people to come up with what they should do, I’d be interested to know how bombing of civilians, especially as Hamas apparently doesn’t care about civilians, is ‘stopping Hamas’?

I'm not justifying it, but at its core, war means you prioritise your own citizens lives over those of the people you're fighting. Implicit is the idea that to win against a fanatical opponent, you need unconditional, total victory of the type we secured during WW2.

There's an enormous amount of Israeli social media content that is out there at the moment linking back what Hamas have done to the holocaust. It's not the best barometer admittedly, but the idea of 'never again' must be incredibly powerful and will justify awful acts in the process. That sense that enough Jewish lives have been lost in the face of total hatred is hardwired into Israel's very existence.

No solutions from me, I find it incredibly depressing and extremist reactions from both israeli's and Palestinians easy to understand.

[Long slender neck]

Lol at LSN and CEB - go into Gaza and just kill Hamas

Asking for people to come up with what they should do, I’d be interested to know how bombing of civilians, especially as Hamas apparently doesn’t care about civilians, is ‘stopping Hamas’?

I didn't say that.

It will be extremely complex.

Apparently the bombs have targeted military infrastructure and their tunnel network.

[Max B Gold]

The consequences of tying in anti Zionism to anti semitism. Silence.

Its a strange thing but he worst antisemites are the Zionists. They have brought violence against their fellow Jews on to the streets of Israel.

Apart from mista's reply (which I don't think you've addressed) this kind of got lost earlier, but this is an awful comment. You can address the policies of the Netanyahu government and how they have inflamed the situation in Gaza over the past years without reducing it to "the Jews are to blame for Jews dying" and calling certain Jews antisemites.

Which isn't what I said. I'm busy just now and will reply to Mista in due course.

I don't think you really got the point I was making. Have a think.

[Mistadobalina]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/thi ... its-chaos/

Best article I've read on the situation so far (Paul Mason, so not standard hard right spectator guff).

[Proposition Joe]

I'm busy just now and will reply to Mista in due course.

Got a game to ref, byeeeee.

I shall wait for you to put me right on a point I am apparently unsure of.

[Max B Gold]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/thi ... its-chaos/

Best article I've read on the situation so far (Paul Mason, so not standard hard right spectator guff).

Paul Mason An MI5 asset.

[ComeOnYouOs]

[Proposition Joe]

Who are those people meant to be?

[The Mindsweep]

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Always always short term thinking and willy swinging aggressiveness following events like these

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Lol at LSN and CEB - go into Gaza and just kill Hamas

Asking for people to come up with what they should do, I’d be interested to know how bombing of civilians, especially as Hamas apparently doesn’t care about civilians, is ‘stopping Hamas’?

I'm not justifying it, but at its core, war means you prioritise your own citizens lives over those of the people you're fighting. Implicit is the idea that to win against a fanatical opponent, you need unconditional, total victory of the type we secured during WW2.

There's an enormous amount of Israeli social media content that is out there at the moment linking back what Hamas have done to the holocaust. It's not the best barometer admittedly, but the idea of 'never again' must be incredibly powerful and will justify awful acts in the process. That sense that enough Jewish lives have been lost in the face of total hatred is hardwired into Israel's very existence.

No solutions from me, I find it incredibly depressing and extremist reactions from both israeli's and Palestinians easy to understand.

I get that - and that’s a nuance that is often overlooked - however, one thing I’ve never really got is the lack of self-awareness from Israel of replicating what happened to the Jews in europe during WWII using the justification that they need to ensure it never happens again…but only to them.

But you are right. All round depressing

[Story of O]

Lol at LSN and CEB - go into Gaza and just kill Hamas

Asking for people to come up with what they should do, I’d be interested to know how bombing of civilians, especially as Hamas apparently doesn’t care about civilians, is ‘stopping Hamas’?

I didn't say that.

It will be extremely complex.

Apparently the bombs have targeted military infrastructure and their tunnel network.

Then how come so many civilians have die?

[Chicken Dhansak]

Because the Hammas terrorists hide themselves amongst their civilian population.. I am convinced that the more Palestinians killed the better they like it because it gives them more credence.

[Max B Gold]

Because the Hammas terrorists hide themselves amongst their civilian population.. I am convinced that the more Palestinians killed the better they like it because it gives them more credence.

Don't let them win then. Ceasing to kill Palestinians should reduce their credence.

[ComeOnYouOs]

Because the Hammas terrorists hide themselves amongst their civilian population.. I am convinced that the more Palestinians killed the better they like it because it gives them more credence.

To think that, you are a very sick individual, but i knew that anyway.
Your Zionist pals have committed a series of war crimes this week, far worse than what Hamas did, and that itself was horrendous.
Israel is a terrorist state, and has been for 75 years.It was founded by terrorism

[Story of O]

Because the Hammas terrorists hide themselves amongst their civilian population.. I am convinced that the more Palestinians killed the better they like it because it gives them more credence.

To think that, you are a very sick individual, but i knew that anyway.
Your Zionist pals have committed a series of war crimes this week, far worse than what Hamas did, and that itself was horrendous.
Israel is a terrorist state, and has been for 75 years.It was founded by terrorism

Never heard of human shields

[Tuffers#2]

Israel demands 1 Million Palestinians to evacute the north of Gaza. Who or what the hell do they think they are ? U.N calls it damaging. Is the World going to watch a Genocide ?

You expect them to do nothing after recent atrocities? The World looked on whilst they were exterminated in the Holocaust, they are standing up for themselves.

Any attacks on Hamas will be intelligence led not indiscriminate like Hamas were killing parents in front of their children and children in front of their parents. Lily liveried ingratiating yourself to terrorist like Hamas creates long term potential problems for democratic countries like our own . You fuel their confidence to continue with their terrorism, encourage them and do nothing to solve the problem.

1500 dead Palestinians siince the retaliation started & the troops with Tanks have entred Gaza, so 1300 Israelis & 1500 Palestinians killed in 5 days. Your side by side peaceful living theory is in Tatters.

[Daily Express bot]

Israel demands 1 Million Palestinians to evacute the north of Gaza. Who or what the hell do they think they are ? U.N calls it damaging. Is the World going to watch a Genocide ?

You expect them to do nothing after recent atrocities? The World looked on whilst they were exterminated in the Holocaust, they are standing up for themselves.

Any attacks on Hamas will be intelligence led not indiscriminate like Hamas were killing parents in front of their children and children in front of their parents. Lily liveried ingratiating yourself to terrorist like Hamas creates long term potential problems for democratic countries like our own . You fuel their confidence to continue with their terrorism, encourage them and do nothing to solve the problem.

1500 dead Palestinians siince the retaliation started & the troops with Tanks have entred Gaza, so 1300 Israelis & 1500 Palestinians killed in 5 days. Your side by side peaceful living theory is in Tatters.

You obviously have not read what I posted.

I did say ‘in peaceful times’ and these are not so. The only thing in tatters is your concentration.

[Tuffers#2]

Hamas know they can commit their attrocities while hiding behind civilians.

Hamas arent interested in peace or talks.

So again, how do you deal with them without civilians getting hurt?

Is Israel interested in peace, Grabbing land & handing that land to new Israeli settlers is hardly a peaceful action.

[Tuffers#2]

You expect them to do nothing after recent atrocities? The World looked on whilst they were exterminated in the Holocaust, they are standing up for themselves.

Any attacks on Hamas will be intelligence led not indiscriminate like Hamas were killing parents in front of their children and children in front of their parents. Lily liveried ingratiating yourself to terrorist like Hamas creates long term potential problems for democratic countries like our own . You fuel their confidence to continue with their terrorism, encourage them and do nothing to solve the problem.

1500 dead Palestinians siince the retaliation started & the troops with Tanks have entred Gaza, so 1300 Israelis & 1500 Palestinians killed in 5 days. Your side by side peaceful living theory is in Tatters.

You obviously have not read what I posted.

I did say ‘in peaceful times’ and these are not so. The only thing in tatters is your concentration.

11,500 dead Palestinians & 2200 dead Israelis since the year 2000 is Peaceful ? Concentrate on the whole conflict then add on the 3000 dead since Saturday & I will consider taking anything you say in the future seriously.

[Tuffers#2]

Like I mean, from first principles - and totally accepting that yep, history did not start last Saturday, but that we are where we are - what *is* the (or even *a*) route from last Saturday to a better situation?

An immediate ceasefire and negotiations to release the hostages in exchange for jailed Palestinians brokered by a trusted party. Enough innocent women and children have died already.

To include discussions about rebuilding Gaza and mutual security. Ending with the creation of a state that protects the rights of all it citizens and ending with full socialism. It may take some time.

Israel has been cited 44 times since 2006 for Breeches of UNHRC ,what is going make them change now ?