The trans debate

[CEB]

It looks like she's getting cancelled. A promotional gig in London has been cancelled, and her record company are choosing to avoid publicising her new album due to what's happened. TRAs/blokes are advocating that she experiences physical violence.

And, once again, the silence from the left is deafening and the far right are capitalising on the logic vacuum. At least her Ally Pally gig is sold out.

Maybe she shouldn't have stuck her nose into other people's lives and pontificated about something she admits she knows nothing about. I learned that lesson the hard way.

What she posted was pretty much in line with the very latest NHS guidance based on a thorough review of the issues with puberty blockers.

[Max B Gold]

It looks like she's getting cancelled. A promotional gig in London has been cancelled, and her record company are choosing to avoid publicising her new album due to what's happened. TRAs/blokes are advocating that she experiences physical violence.

And, once again, the silence from the left is deafening and the far right are capitalising on the logic vacuum. At least her Ally Pally gig is sold out.

Maybe she shouldn't have stuck her nose into other people's lives and pontificated about something she admits she knows nothing about. I learned that lesson the hard way.

She should know her place.

She would have been better placed to rant on Bookface had she checked in here beforehand and read this very informative thread.

[CEB]

I see MB Gold is at his “pretend it’s all a big joke” stage, which usually happens when a woman is treated unfairly and Maxx’yyy can’t quite rationalise it. I expect it to be forgotten about when next he moves onto “CEB is aligned with fascists!” as he pretends to have completely forgotten about the authoritarian arseholes trying to end a woman’s career in a week or two.

Or who knows, maybe she’ll actually be interviewed by a sympathetic journalist at the Times, at which point he can say “lol cancelled? Didn’t realise that she thought people were obliged to buy her records, and if she’s cancelled how come she won’t shut up”

Tedious.

[Max B Gold]

I see MB Gold is at his “pretend it’s all a big joke” stage, which usually happens when a woman is treated unfairly and Maxx’yyy can’t quite rationalise it. I expect it to be forgotten about when next he moves onto “CEB is aligned with fascists!” as he pretends to have completely forgotten about the authoritarian arseholes trying to end a woman’s career in a week or two.

Or who knows, maybe she’ll actually be interviewed by a sympathetic journalist at the Times, at which point he can say “lol cancelled? Didn’t realise that she thought people were obliged to buy her records, and if she’s cancelled how come she won’t shut up”

Tedious.

Yes you are not to mention weirdly obsessed.

[The Mindsweep]

[Long slender neck]

Person on far left fails to understand the issue, I'm shocked.

[Daily Express bot]

I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

[CEB]

I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

[Proposition Joe]

I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

I've finally twigged that these posts are all done by Chat GPT.

[CEB]

I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

“I went to a festival. While I was there, I met some male people, some of whom were wearing feminine clothes and make up. I didn’t mention their sexuality because that would be weird. I also didn’t mention their clothes because that would be weird. I treated them with respect because failing to do so would be weird. I gave no thought whatsoever as to whether the fact that I can socialise with male people who wear clothing considered feminine because they believe they are women, is in any way pertinent to the stakes of the trans debate, because I know nothing about what is actually being debated”

Is there any other subject where so many men confidently state that there’s no issue, despite clearly not even understanding what the debate is?
I reckon that even if you’re not at all in support of the women who oppose trans activism, it’s still pretty clear to a reasonable person that a big part of this discourse is men failing to listen to the most basic, fundamental points of women with concerns about what is happening.

[Daily Express bot]

I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

[CEB]

I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

Why on Earth would you be bothered about what people were wearing or how they looked? What’s your point, here, exactly? You do understand that “the trans debate” is not a debate about whether men should be able to freely wear whatever they want without being held to arbitrary standards of masculinity, right?

[Daily Express bot]

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

Why on Earth would you be bothered about what people were wearing or how they looked? What’s your point, here, exactly? You do understand that “the trans debate” is not a debate about whether men should be able to freely wear whatever they want without being held to arbitrary standards of masculinity, right?

I am not bothered what they wore but as part of innate human interaction, verbal intercourse, social interaction ( you weigh up a person during conversation) it crosses one’s mind . What is your problem with that may I kindly ask?

[Daily Express bot]

Another person fails to understand the debate. How stupid do you have to be to still believe that what is being debated is the right of men to wear what they want?

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

Why on Earth would you be bothered about what people were wearing or how they looked? What’s your point, here, exactly? You do understand that “the trans debate” is not a debate about whether men should be able to freely wear whatever they want without being held to arbitrary standards of masculinity, right?

I am not bothered what they wore but as part of innate human interaction, verbal intercourse, social interaction ( you weigh up a person during conversation) it crosses one’s mind . What is your problem with that may I kindly ask?

[CEB]

You… you think I have a problem with the fact that a thing crossed your mind but you dismissed it as irrelevant?

Can you read?

[Daily Express bot]

I was just interacting with people about music. Was not at all bothered with what they were wearing , how they looked, I mean some of the colourfully outfits at Glastonbury (and revealing costumes) are part of the deal.

Why on Earth would you be bothered about what people were wearing or how they looked? What’s your point, here, exactly? You do understand that “the trans debate” is not a debate about whether men should be able to freely wear whatever they want without being held to arbitrary standards of masculinity, right?

I am not bothered what they wore but as part of innate human interaction, verbal intercourse, social interaction ( you weigh up a person during conversation) it crosses one’s mind . What is your problem with that may I kindly ask?

Are you hoping for ‘Thought Police’ to be appointed?

Having said that, I firmly believe that there are two sexes, Male and Female that the Good Lord blessed us with. If a man wants to change to a woman and a woman to a man, fine by me.

[CEB]

“Are you hoping for thought police to be appointed?”

Again, can you read?
Think what you like. It’s just bizarre that you think that your internal observation that you were socialising with a man who believes he is a woman, and your subsequent recognition that it has no impact on you, is in any way pertinent to the trans debate. Do you understand what is being debated in the “trans debate”?

[Max B Gold]

I recently went to a festival over a few weeks and met many trans people , a small proportion of total in attendance. Some were obviously trans whilst I was unsure of others as they looked very much like a woman. Even so, the conversations were restricted to music and no mention was made of their dress, appearance or sexuality. Everyone got on so well as was expected. Personally , I treated everyone present with the same respect. In this day and age where straight men wear dresses ( Scottish men , kilts, Asian dress, Beckham Sarongs, Vicars frocks) who cares?

I've finally twigged that these posts are all done by Chat GPT.

I had a day last week where 99% of my replies were cut and pasted from Twitter. Dunners isn't the only one who can do that sort of stuff.

LCL isn't a very good advert for Chat GPT. It's tedious and a warning to us all about the manufacturing of culture.

[Daily Express bot]

“Are you hoping for thought police to be appointed?”

Again, can you read?
Think what you like. It’s just bizarre that you think that your internal observation that you were socialising with a man who believes he is a woman, and your subsequent recognition that it has no impact on you, is in any way pertinent to the trans debate. Do you understand what is being debated in the “trans debate”?

Now you have asked, no I don’t know.

I want to say live and let live. I treat everyone as I find with equal respect and reverence. I was in the company of new people who knew a good friend of mine recently . On the journey home he said that this huge bald bloke with a beard who had been in our presence all evening was born a female and did I realise.

I said I did not realise and said good luck to her if she is now happy. For all I knew she was a man. I don’t know if she had changed organs and it was none of my business if she was now happy in the right body. It is of no concern to anyone but her.

[Daily Express bot]

Seems to me that the blockers are just the start of a conveyor belt of 'treatment'.

I think parents should authorise treatment as it could be a phase a youngster could be going through.

[CEB]

“Are you hoping for thought police to be appointed?”

Again, can you read?
Think what you like. It’s just bizarre that you think that your internal observation that you were socialising with a man who believes he is a woman, and your subsequent recognition that it has no impact on you, is in any way pertinent to the trans debate. Do you understand what is being debated in the “trans debate”?

Now you have asked, no I don’t know.

I want to say live and let live. I treat everyone as I find with equal respect and reverence. I was in the company of new people who knew a good friend of mine recently . On the journey home he said that this huge bald bloke with a beard who had been in our presence all evening was born a female and did I realise.

I said I did not realise and said good luck to her if she is now happy. For all I knew she was a man. I don’t know if she had changed organs and it was none of my business if she was now happy in the right body. It is of no concern to anyone but her.

Thank you for your honesty.
The reason your experiences are not pertinent to the debate is this:
Trans organisations and charities are pushing the idea that the only thing necessary for someone to be seen as having become a member of the opposite sex is a self declared assertion, and that that assertion should suffice. No operations, no hormones necessary.
Humans cant actually change sex, but you’re right; there’s no harm most of the time in people living their lives in a way that corresponds to their own idea of what it is to be a member of the opposite sex.
The issue arises when sex matters.

Here’s what I mean. You meet a male person at a festival, wearing a dress, and correctly recognise that how that male person presents is no harm to you, and so you accept that some men wear dresses, and sometimes believe themselves to be women. That’s not in dispute by anyone aside from the most rabid right wing bigot.

But the issue would be this; let’s say your mother requires intimate care as she gets older. For her safety and dignity, she would like her care to be carried out by a female career, and you presumably would support her in that.
If an organisation assigned a male person who believes himself to be a woman to be an appropriate person to provide intimate care (as has actual;y happened when organisations started designing policies based on Stonewall’s guidelines), would you consider that to be fine, or would you take issue? (and if you think it’s fine, while I disagree, that’s up to you. My aim here is to show you what the clash of rights is - in this case the right of a male person to have his identity validated in all circumstances, Vs the right of a female person to have same sex care)

[CEB]

Seems to me that the blockers are just the start of a conveyor belt of 'treatment'.

I think parents should authorise treatment as it could be a phase a youngster could be going through.

Parents don’t have the right to decide that their children’s potential to have children can be taken away on the basis of regressive ideas about some personality traits being inappropriate for their sex.

This isn’t difficult.

[Max B Gold]

“Are you hoping for thought police to be appointed?”

Again, can you read?
Think what you like. It’s just bizarre that you think that your internal observation that you were socialising with a man who believes he is a woman, and your subsequent recognition that it has no impact on you, is in any way pertinent to the trans debate. Do you understand what is being debated in the “trans debate”?

Now you have asked, no I don’t know.

I want to say live and let live. I treat everyone as I find with equal respect and reverence. I was in the company of new people who knew a good friend of mine recently . On the journey home he said that this huge bald bloke with a beard who had been in our presence all evening was born a female and did I realise.

I said I did not realise and said good luck to her if she is now happy. For all I knew she was a man. I don’t know if she had changed organs and it was none of my business if she was now happy in the right body. It is of no concern to anyone but her.

Thank you for your honesty.
The reason your experiences are not pertinent to the debate is this:
Trans organisations and charities are pushing the idea that the only thing necessary for someone to be seen as having become a member of the opposite sex is a self declared assertion, and that that assertion should suffice. No operations, no hormones necessary.
Humans cant actually change sex, but you’re right; there’s no harm most of the time in people living their lives in a way that corresponds to their own idea of what it is to be a member of the opposite sex.
The issue arises when sex matters.

Here’s what I mean. You meet a male person at a festival, wearing a dress, and correctly recognise that how that male person presents is no harm to you, and so you accept that some men wear dresses, and sometimes believe themselves to be women. That’s not in dispute by anyone aside from the most rabid right wing bigot.

But the issue would be this; let’s say your mother requires intimate care as she gets older. For her safety and dignity, she would like her care to be carried out by a female career, and you presumably would support her in that.
If an organisation assigned a male person who believes himself to be a woman to be an appropriate person to provide intimate care (as has actual;y happened when organisations started designing policies based on Stonewall’s guidelines), would you consider that to be fine, or would you take issue? (and if you think it’s fine, while I disagree, that’s up to you. My aim here is to show you what the clash of rights is - in this case the right of a male person to have his identity validated in all circumstances, Vs the right of a female person to have same sex care)

So the whole shooting match is because you don't want your old mums arse wiped when she's in the care home by a transwoman. Jesus Christ. Have you any idea how weak and thin that "point" is?

[Max B Gold]

Seems to me that the blockers are just the start of a conveyor belt of 'treatment'.

I think parents should authorise treatment as it could be a phase a youngster could be going through.

Parents don’t have the right to decide that their children’s potential to have children can be taken away on the basis of regressive ideas about some personality traits being inappropriate for their sex.

This isn’t difficult.

How is the right to reproduce taken away if the person consents to it?

[Currywurst and Chips]