The trans debate

[Proposition Joe]

Think I might have just read the same one. DM? Doesn't sound like it's without risk. I don't think it's child abuse, as I've seen some people say on the socials, but...I dunno. Gut reaction says "not for me, Clive". Like, some women just can't breastfeed. It just doesn't happen for them naturally for whatever reason, or kiddo doesn't latch. It's great if it happens but it's not a 100% divine right/essential part of motherhood if you can't. Just bottle feed. One doesn't always *have* to have everything, without making concessions or compromise.

[CEB]

Is that what it is? Just dry sucking? Assumed they had some kind of tube thing set up like a reverse catheter for breast milk/formula.

No, there’s an element of discharge if you take enough of the right sort of hormones. Which can cause the baby to have an irregular heartbeat, based on available research. But validation is obvs more important to this every day struggling mum (on 53k a year)

[Proposition Joe]

Don't recall the news item saying they were struggling? Just complained about bills and used the word 'mother' which booted everything off.

[Max B Gold]

I wasn't sure it was possible but thread just got even weirder than normal.

I reckon a family on 53k in London can struggle if they have a substantial mortgage, two kids, rising food and energy costs and a penchant for women's fashion. It's all a matter of degree not self righteous judgement.

[CEB]

“I don't think it's child abuse”

It depends how you think of it. From a safeguarding perspective, the things to consider are these, in my opinion.
1: is it in a baby’s best interests to be encouraged to suckle male nipples?
2: is it for the validation of the adult, if so can a baby consent to support adult validation of a cross sex identity?
3: is it conceivable that a baby treated as such, and discovering it later, might feel reasonably like they’d been violated?
(That’s without even making any assumptions about fetishes, which are very likely to be present)

If I found out my (hypothetical) father had suckled me to reinforce his identity as a woman, I would consider it abuse

[StillSpike]

[Dunners]

It's batsh*t crazy.

Called it back on page 8, and nothing posted since has changed my mind.

The wet, liberal left need to recognise when they're being played.

[Max B Gold]

It's batsh*t crazy.

Called it back on page 8, and nothing posted since has changed my mind.

The wet, liberal left need to recognise when they're being played.

Correct. A class war is raging and the best the liberal left and their right wing opponents can do is fall into an elephant trap and engage with culture war trivia in a matter irrelevant to 99.9% of the population.

[CEB]

Women are more than .1% of the population dear x

[Max Fowler]

I don't think it's child abuse

Getting a child to suckle on your man tit is child abuse.

[Dunners]

I don't think it's child abuse

Getting a child to suckle on your man tit is child abuse.

Turns out the bloke has a nipple fetish too.

[Dunners]

Seems to be enjoying this.

[Dunners]

Aside from al the batsh*t craziness of this latest case, what's more important here is to what extent ITN were clued up on this weirdo when they selected him as their "typical struggling mother".

Given he's a known activist, and so much has already been gathered from his social media accounts, I'd have expected an ITN researcher to have spotted the red flags before his selection.

[Proposition Joe]

Either ITV didn't bother doing their homework, or they *did* and knew this would be the outcome. Either is very plausible.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Definitely knew. Clearly trying to make it the norm. Oh here’s a normal, every day customer of ours.

[Long slender neck]

They knew and they'll have him on This Morning, Lorraine and Loose Women too.

[Max B Gold]

Definitely knew. Clearly trying to make it the norm. Oh here’s a normal, every day customer of ours.

Or they thought this will really set CEB and the other transphobes off on the Orient MB and start a pile on. Let's all punch down together.

[Max Fowler]

Out of interest, where has the baby come from? Not sure it's necessary relevant, just curious.

[Dunners]

Out of interest, where has the baby come from? Not sure it's necessary relevant, just curious.

From it's mother; a women.

[CEB]

An abusive male is not an oppressed person. The central sleight of hand of the trans rights movement is in heterosexual males successfully convincing credulous idiots that they are oppressed by women who maintain that men who think they’re women aren’t actually women.

I mean, Dunners has literally demonstrated that this is a man with a fetish for having his nipples stimulated. The only thing preventing anyone from recognising this as an entitled, fetishistic man using a baby to at best, validate his sense of self, is that they’ve allowed themselves to believe that to recognise that is to somehow manifest a “right wing” viewpoint.

If you want to ruin your day, look into “sissy porn” and then think about how that might factor into heterosexual men posting pictures of them being suckled on Twitter, in the full knowledge that it will attract negative attention.

[CEB]

Side note: next time a trans rights advocate says “transphobes conflate gender and sex! Lol nobody says trans people have changed sex!”, remember that a male person claiming that he has the *gender* identity “woman”, posted a photo of himself squeezing nipple discharge into his son’s mouth on the basis that since he’s a woman, he can legitimately consider himself a mother in every sense.

[CEB]

Ash Sarkar once again making me feel deeply comfortable with being out of step with “the left” on this (though it seems Max is now the only person on the left here still not acknowledging that there’s some iffy stuff going on with the men who believe they’re women)

[CEB]

This tweet is spot on

[Max B Gold]

Ash Sarkar once again making me feel deeply comfortable with being out of step with “the left” on this (though it seems Max is now the only person on the left here still not acknowledging that there’s some iffy stuff going on with the men who believe they’re women)

There you go again putting words into my mouth. At no point have I said this particular case is in any way normal nor acceptable. Strawman.

What I do object to is you and your far right mates using weirdos like this to beat down on the trans community in general. You are adding fuel to the haters campaign and assisting in perpetuating the so called "culture war"

[CEB]

“Far right mates”

Sorry, my friend. That ship has sailed. I talk about this a lot, but I have always, always done so from a position of reality based recognition that sex matters and that male people can’t change sex. You’ve also veered wildly from pretending you understand the issue, to claiming to be simply on a wind up. You really should be embarrassed because your contributions on this thread have actively sought to obfuscate, not enlighten. It’s genuinely been pathetic to see. And you went for it so wholeheartedly that now, you’re out on a limb yourself, making vague accusations of attacks that never happened, and clutching at the straws of “but right wing people think the same as you, sort of”

Basically, go f*** yourself. I’ve f***ing thought long and wrestled with reconciling my thoughts on this, and that’s why I’ve been able to maintain an ethical position throughout. You’re a disgrace to the left on this, because you don’t even give a sh*t about what you’re advocating, you gross, sexist, silly sausage.

And now back on foe you go.