What we need to get our heads around

[Friend or faux]

Is the big problem in UK is under investment & it is having dire consequences. Tory austerity is to blame. The latest manifestation is the rotten meat scandal. This is the consequence of the Tories scaring people away from taxation. Austerity has caused ridiculous levels in : policing, NHS, Civil Service, FSA , Border Control, I could go on & on. Read about the rotten meat scandal. It will scare the pants off you. Is it all worth it, to save a few quid on your tax bill?

[Dunners]

Compared to most other advanced economies, the UK is now a low investment basket case.

[Orient_Man_And_Boy]

If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

[Dunners]

It's not just about taxation. I realised recently that almost all of the Polish people I know have moved back to Poland. And not because of Brexit (although that may have played a part), but because they have a better standard of living (a functioning state, housing, earnings, disposable income) and feel like they have better prospects there. Poland is hardly a hotbed of communism/socialism/whateverism. This country just feels like it's in a death spiral at the moment.

[Max Fowler]

It's not just about taxation. I realised recently that almost all of the Polish people I know have moved back to Poland. And not because of Brexit (although that may have played a part), but because they have a better standard of living (a functioning state, housing, earnings, disposable income) and feel like they have better prospects there. Poland is hardly a hotbed of communism/socialism/whateverism. This country just feels like it's in a death spiral at the moment.

It doesn't just feel like it, it is.

[Max B Gold]

If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

You are assuming that the tax will be raised from earnings.

It doesn't have to be it can come from

1)corporates paying their fair share (higher rates of CT and a four fold expansion of anti avoidance/evasion teams) in return for the govt running a health, education and legal system that enables them to extract profit.

2) Inheritance Tax being made compulsory

3) Taxation of unearned income (eg. dividends/capital gains) being taxed at higher rates

4) Transaction charges on the finance sector

5) Windfall tax on excessive profit grabbing

6) Wealth taxes on assets owned.

7) Taxes on polluting industries, and so on.

Dont forget we already have the highest tax burden in the last 70 years and everything is still sh*t thanks to Tories like Johnson and the mad one who was ejected after a week or two.

[Mistadobalina]

It's not just about taxation. I realised recently that almost all of the Polish people I know have moved back to Poland. And not because of Brexit (although that may have played a part), but because they have a better standard of living (a functioning state, housing, earnings, disposable income) and feel like they have better prospects there. Poland is hardly a hotbed of communism/socialism/whateverism. This country just feels like it's in a death spiral at the moment.

Their economy will be bigger than ours by 2030 at current rate.

Extent to which the Tories have stuffed this country over the last 13 years is incredible. We don't invest in people, housing, ideas, infrastructure or kit. Our productivity levels are miserably low compared to other advanced economies. Brexit basically doubled down on our economic weak points and was sold as a solution to make us more dynamic.

This is what happens when you elect a government that served a gerontocracy - they exist to feather the nests of asset holders that have no valuable economic purpose other than to allow the rich to fleece us and middling income types to feel rich.

[Mistadobalina]

Average real earnings won't reach 2008 levels in this country until towards the end of the decade. That's an astonishing level of economic failure, almost entirely on the Tories watch. That the Tories are polling at the highs 20s is kinda incredible, they have failed on basically every single measure you could imagine. We're dying younger, earning less, retiring older, more divided, more isolated, exporting less, getting less investment, waiting longer to see a doctor or dentist, paying more for worse public services. Sometimes I struggle to wrap my head around how bad at governing they've been.

[Max Fowler]

But the top x% have dramatically increased their wealth over this period.

They've been an astounding success.

[Beradogs]

Average real earnings won't reach 2008 levels in this country until towards the end of the decade. That's an astonishing level of economic failure, almost entirely on the Tories watch. That the Tories are polling at the highs 20s is kinda incredible, they have failed on basically every single measure you could imagine. We're dying younger, earning less, retiring older, more divided, more isolated, exporting less, getting less investment, waiting longer to see a doctor or dentist, paying more for worse public services. Sometimes I struggle to wrap my head around how bad at governing they've been.

Same in just about every country in the world. Just look at the U.S.

[Mistadobalina]

Ffs. This is how they keep getting away with it. Look at GDP growth, wage growth or productivity growth post 2008. We've basically become a Greggs version of Italy.

[Friend or faux]

What got me on this diatribe, was the reading about how the food health & safety lot are grossly under staffed; as a result we are getting a lot of dodgy ( real dodgy ) food. Then there is NHS grossly under staffed, Criminal Justice system etc etc. All being treated as separate entities. But it is this bunch of cowboys running everything into the ground and at the same time making as many fast ( and dodgy ) bucks as possible. It is an absolute disgrace.

[Beradogs]

Mista. I hear you but I am just saying this mass transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich is a global phenomenon.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Mista. I hear you but I am just saying this mass transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich is a global phenomenon.

Ah, that’s alright then.

[Dunners]

Our productivity levels are miserably low...

I hear you. However, given the activity levels on this message board, none of us should have the brass neck to be commenting on productivity levels.

[Dunners]

We've steered our kids towards qualifications/careers that do not tie them down to the UK or London in particular. We're almost reconciled with the fact that both may have to move abroad to pursue a quality of life which is likely to be unobtainable for them if they remain. And I know plenty of others in the Champagne Socialist Metropolitan Elite WhatsApp group who are doing the same. As other economies overtake us we could start to experience our own brain drain.

[LittleMate]

If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

You are assuming that the tax will be raised from earnings.

It doesn't have to be it can come from

1)corporates paying their fair share (higher rates of CT and a four fold expansion of anti avoidance/evasion teams) in return for the govt running a health, education and legal system that enables them to extract profit.

2) Inheritance Tax being made compulsory

3) Taxation of unearned income (eg. dividends/capital gains) being taxed at higher rates

4) Transaction charges on the finance sector

5) Windfall tax on excessive profit grabbing

6) Wealth taxes on assets owned.

7) Taxes on polluting industries, and so on.

Dont forget we already have the highest tax burden in the last 70 years and everything is still sh*t thanks to Tories like Johnson and the mad one who was ejected after a week or two.

I think this could be an excellent idea. We should trial it in Scotland first and see how it goes....

[Orient_Man_And_Boy]

If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

You are assuming that the tax will be raised from earnings.

It doesn't have to be it can come from

1)corporates paying their fair share (higher rates of CT and a four fold expansion of anti avoidance/evasion teams) in return for the govt running a health, education and legal system that enables them to extract profit.

2) Inheritance Tax being made compulsory

3) Taxation of unearned income (eg. dividends/capital gains) being taxed at higher rates

4) Transaction charges on the finance sector

5) Windfall tax on excessive profit grabbing

6) Wealth taxes on assets owned.

7) Taxes on polluting industries, and so on.

Dont forget we already have the highest tax burden in the last 70 years and everything is still sh*t thanks to Tories like Johnson and the mad one who was ejected after a week or two.

That is my assumption ... always hit the little guys first, unchanged through history, I'd guess

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

This seems another opportune moment to post this up.

No, he’s not a relative.

https://novaramedia.com/2022/10/09/the- ... stevenson/

[tuffers#1]

If you’re talking about “a few quid” on one’s personal tax bill then, personally, no. IT was 35% when I started work, although I’m not saying everything was naturally a bed of roses.

But it’s a tricky balance between ‘freedom to spend one’s money as one wishes’ vs ‘sorry tax is higher to support the nation as a whole’. An over simplification I’m sure but is that Conservatism vs Socialism in its rawest state?

The former may be classed as have-it-all-fat-cat selfishness (?) and the latter is I-am-not-as-wealthy-as-you-so-tax-more-so-we-can-spread-the-wealth.

One thing for certain, no matter the track record of other lot, no matter how charismatic the leader etc etc, no party will run on a manifesto of (say) 25 or 30 % tax because no b*gger would vote for them.

You are assuming that the tax will be raised from earnings.

It doesn't have to be it can come from

1)corporates paying their fair share (higher rates of CT and a four fold expansion of anti avoidance/evasion teams) in return for the govt running a health, education and legal system that enables them to extract profit.

2) Inheritance Tax being made compulsory

3) Taxation of unearned income (eg. dividends/capital gains) being taxed at higher rates

4) Transaction charges on the finance sector

5) Windfall tax on excessive profit grabbing

6) Wealth taxes on assets owned.

7) Taxes on polluting industries, and so on.

Dont forget we already have the highest tax burden in the last 70 years and everything is still sh*t thanks to Tories like Johnson and the mad one who was ejected after a week or two.

8 ) Tax all those with more than 2 Homes by 90 %

[Friend or faux]

Would be a good idea if a stupid postings tax was introduced.

[The Reverend]

Would be a good idea if a stupid postings tax was introduced.

This message board alone would generate millions for the public purse

[StillSpike]

Average real earnings won't reach 2008 levels in this country until towards the end of the decade. That's an astonishing level of economic failure, almost entirely on the Tories watch. That the Tories are polling at the highs 20s is kinda incredible, they have failed on basically every single measure you could imagine. We're dying younger, earning less, retiring older, more divided, more isolated, exporting less, getting less investment, waiting longer to see a doctor or dentist, paying more for worse public services. Sometimes I struggle to wrap my head around how bad at governing they've been.

None of that is what is important. What people are really most concerned about is the fleets and fleets of small boats hanging around on street corners waiting to pounce out on us and attack us with laughing gas.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

We've steered our kids towards qualifications/careers that do not tie them down to the UK or London in particular. We're almost reconciled with the fact that both may have to move abroad to pursue a quality of life which is likely to be unobtainable for them if they remain. And I know plenty of others in the Champagne Socialist Metropolitan Elite WhatsApp group who are doing the same. As other economies overtake us we could start to experience our own brain drain.

Literally a factor in our conversations about having a second kid. Basically don’t think it’s fair to bring a life into this sh*t show.