Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:03 am
It shouldn't be harder for the homeless to get housed than asylum seekers or migrants. But i believe many people on the streets do not want to be housed.
A very convenient belief if you have an interest in maintaining the status quo. Have you pursued that thought a little further down the line? Here’s how to do it, it’s a neat little trick I like to call “empathy”
1: think about the belief; in this case “I believe some homeless people do not want to be housed”
2: imagine that *you* are homeless, but “don’t want to be housed” - why might you not want that? Is it in your interests to not want housing? Is it rational to not want that? Does the fact that you might be irrational have any bearing on whether you should still be supported to get housing?
It just seems like you’re doing an Alan Partridge style “I was making a point about something else” here
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:03 am
It shouldn't be harder for the homeless to get housed than asylum seekers or migrants. But i believe many people on the streets do not want to be housed.
A very convenient belief if you have an interest in maintaining the status quo. Have you pursued that thought a little further down the line? Here’s how to do it, it’s a neat little trick I like to call “empathy”
1: think about the belief; in this case “I believe some homeless people do not want to be housed”
2: imagine that *you* are homeless, but “don’t want to be housed” - why might you not want that? Is it in your interests to not want housing? Is it rational to not want that? Does the fact that you might be irrational have any bearing on whether you should still be supported to get housing?
It just seems like you’re doing an Alan Partridge style “I was making a point about something else” here
Can I give you an example of someone I Met just over a year ago whilst I was homeless , one of the people went back on the streets because " The flats " He was shown were actually a small room with a bed a cooker & A shower & also a wardrobe . He wasnt prepared to let a Landlord get away with £ 800 rent & then to be expected to pay all bills & feed & cloth himself for £ 300 odd quid a month . He was one of many that the charity saw who said theyd fancy taking there chances back on the street .
I think you need to understand the point LSN made without jumping to conclusions on why
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:03 am
It shouldn't be harder for the homeless to get housed than asylum seekers or migrants. But i believe many people on the streets do not want to be housed.
A very convenient belief if you have an interest in maintaining the status quo. Have you pursued that thought a little further down the line? Here’s how to do it, it’s a neat little trick I like to call “empathy”
1: think about the belief; in this case “I believe some homeless people do not want to be housed”
2: imagine that *you* are homeless, but “don’t want to be housed” - why might you not want that? Is it in your interests to not want housing? Is it rational to not want that? Does the fact that you might be irrational have any bearing on whether you should still be supported to get housing?
It just seems like you’re doing an Alan Partridge style “I was making a point about something else” here
Can I give you an example of someone I Met just over a year ago whilst I was homeless , one of the people went back on the streets because " The flats " He was shown were actually a small room with a bed a cooker & A shower & also a wardrobe . He wasnt prepared to let a Landlord get away with £ 800 rent & then to be expected to pay all bills & feed & cloth himself for £ 300 odd quid a month . He was one of many that the charity saw who said theyd fancy taking there chances back on the street .
I think you need to understand the point LSN made without jumping to conclusions on why
I’m sure you think you have a point, but as you’ve told about a quarter of a story there, it’s impossible to see what it is.
A very convenient belief if you have an interest in maintaining the status quo. Have you pursued that thought a little further down the line? Here’s how to do it, it’s a neat little trick I like to call “empathy”
1: think about the belief; in this case “I believe some homeless people do not want to be housed”
2: imagine that *you* are homeless, but “don’t want to be housed” - why might you not want that? Is it in your interests to not want housing? Is it rational to not want that? Does the fact that you might be irrational have any bearing on whether you should still be supported to get housing?
It just seems like you’re doing an Alan Partridge style “I was making a point about something else” here
Can I give you an example of someone I Met just over a year ago whilst I was homeless , one of the people went back on the streets because " The flats " He was shown were actually a small room with a bed a cooker & A shower & also a wardrobe . He wasnt prepared to let a Landlord get away with £ 800 rent & then to be expected to pay all bills & feed & cloth himself for £ 300 odd quid a month . He was one of many that the charity saw who said theyd fancy taking there chances back on the street .
I think you need to understand the point LSN made without jumping to conclusions on why
I’m sure you think you have a point, but as you’ve told about a quarter of a story there, it’s impossible to see what it is.
A quarter of his story is enough for you .
Thanks for your concern on my being Homeless
For a period of time . Such a caring Human Being !
A very convenient belief if you have an interest in maintaining the status quo. Have you pursued that thought a little further down the line? Here’s how to do it, it’s a neat little trick I like to call “empathy”
1: think about the belief; in this case “I believe some homeless people do not want to be housed”
2: imagine that *you* are homeless, but “don’t want to be housed” - why might you not want that? Is it in your interests to not want housing? Is it rational to not want that? Does the fact that you might be irrational have any bearing on whether you should still be supported to get housing?
It just seems like you’re doing an Alan Partridge style “I was making a point about something else” here
Can I give you an example of someone I Met just over a year ago whilst I was homeless , one of the people went back on the streets because " The flats " He was shown were actually a small room with a bed a cooker & A shower & also a wardrobe . He wasnt prepared to let a Landlord get away with £ 800 rent & then to be expected to pay all bills & feed & cloth himself for £ 300 odd quid a month . He was one of many that the charity saw who said theyd fancy taking there chances back on the street .
I think you need to understand the point LSN made without jumping to conclusions on why
T
I’m sure you think you have a point, but as you’ve told about a quarter of a story there, it’s impossible to see what it is.
Hang on a minute. You haven't even questioned the actual existence of this homeless person. Slack.
TRUMP Plumbing wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:01 am
Weird that you’ve gone after greyhounds ill thought out post, whilst conveniently ignoring dodgy comment after dodgy comment from your fellow mod….
LOL I haven't been a mod on here for over three years
I mentioned back on page 2 of this thread that the Government were likely to copy the approach previously taken by Australia. And just about everything, even down to the crass "marketing" is clearly influenced by that.
On it's own, the scheme will not work. But that's not what they're trying to achieve anyway. For it to have a chance of success, there would need to be processing centres in Calais and a few other key locations. There also needs to be return agreements with other countries - which we do not have.
As for why this approach is being taken... it serves two purposes:
1. The Tories have identified that amplifying "culture war" issues is one of their best hopes of washing their record from the minds of thicko voters. It's a great wedge issue for them.
2. It's a precursor for a populist campaign to exit the ECHR.
The whole thing stinks, and their true intentions are so glaringly obvious that it's depressing to witness how many thickos are falling for it.
Why cant for instance we just fly Albanians back to Albania?
Why dont they try harder to break the gangs in this country that are bringing people here?
If they stopped giving out free housing, do you think that would help? I imagine many would still be brought over by gangs.
May have asked these questions or similar before but I'll be damned if I'm going to read all 25 pages again.
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:16 pm
Why cant for instance we just fly Albanians back to Albania?
Why dont they try harder to break the gangs in this country that are bringing people here?
If they stopped giving out free housing, do you think that would help? I imagine many would still be brought over by gangs.
May have asked these questions or similar before but I'll be damned if I'm going to read all 25 pages again.
We can fly people back to Albania if we do not accept their asylum claim.
The gangs that require disrupting are primarily operating outside of our jurisdiction.
It doesn't matter how much or how little "free housing" we do. People are being sold a dream by this whole shadowy industry that has flourished in the vacuum we have partially helped to create.
The first few pages of this thread were the best because, despite the best efforts of certain dinlows, there was an attempt at a reasonable discussion.
I think people are making it more complicated than it needs be. Arriving on boats into a country that you are not a citizen of illegal. Arguments like they have family here. I have family in the U.S but I ain’t allowed to go and live there and if I arrive on a dinghy they will throw me out. Having no borders at all is another debate.
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:16 pm
Why cant for instance we just fly Albanians back to Albania?
Why dont they try harder to break the gangs in this country that are bringing people here?
If they stopped giving out free housing, do you think that would help? I imagine many would still be brought over by gangs.
May have asked these questions or similar before but I'll be damned if I'm going to read all 25 pages again.
We can fly people back to Albania if we do not accept their asylum claim.
The gangs that require disrupting are primarily operating outside of our jurisdiction.
It doesn't matter how much or how little "free housing" we do. People are being sold a dream by this whole shadowy industry that has flourished in the vacuum we have partially helped to create.
The first few pages of this thread were the best because, despite the best efforts of certain dinlows, there was an attempt at a reasonable discussion.
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:16 pm
Why cant for instance we just fly Albanians back to Albania?
Why dont they try harder to break the gangs in this country that are bringing people here?
If they stopped giving out free housing, do you think that would help? I imagine many would still be brought over by gangs.
May have asked these questions or similar before but I'll be damned if I'm going to read all 25 pages again.
We can fly people back to Albania if we do not accept their asylum claim.
The gangs that require disrupting are primarily operating outside of our jurisdiction.
It doesn't matter how much or how little "free housing" we do. People are being sold a dream by this whole shadowy industry that has flourished in the vacuum we have partially helped to create.
The first few pages of this thread were the best because, despite the best efforts of certain dinlows, there was an attempt at a reasonable discussion.
Yes, let's do that too. But solving this requires pragmatism, collaboration with other countries, and resources. For all the bluster, none of that appears to be happening.
Beradogs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:36 pm
I think people are making it more complicated than it needs be. Arriving on boats into a country that you are not a citizen of illegal. Arguments like they have family here. I have family in the U.S but I ain’t allowed to go and live there and if I arrive on a dinghy they will throw me out. Having no borders at all is another debate.
And where do you return someone to who has destroyed all their documentation and won't say where they came from?
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:16 pm
Why cant for instance we just fly Albanians back to Albania?
Why dont they try harder to break the gangs in this country that are bringing people here?
If they stopped giving out free housing, do you think that would help? I imagine many would still be brought over by gangs.
May have asked these questions or similar before but I'll be damned if I'm going to read all 25 pages again.
Long slender neck wrote: ↑Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:36 pm
Can you apply for asylum without saying where you came from?
I don't believe so, no. An asylum claim needs to be based on having needed to leave certain circumstances. But destroying your ID and docs does make it very hard for the authorities to 'return' people. I think China, for example, refuses to accept anyone back who doesn't have documentation, so anyone who can't be 100% proven to be Chinese ends up in limbo. Happy to be corrected if that's not the case.
Genuine asylum claimants are best served through being able to demonstrate and evidence the basis of their claim. But, due to the circumstances that often compel them to flee their country of origin, they are often missing key documents. This has been pounced upon by the networks/gangs/rumour mills/social media etc that other migrants rely on, so there is widespread "loss" of documentation.
This is a growing problem for a number of reasons. Undocumented migrants from China are heavily made up of the Uyghur population. China considers the Uyghurs a threat, so is more than happy for them to never return. The same issue is occurring across the Sahel region of Africa, and various other territories.
We also need to look beyond the current numbers of attempted crossings, but at the trends. And the trend is for a dramatic increase (60% in 2022 from the previous year) with the outlook for global instability increasingly bleak. So, any solution needs to be designed for the medium term at least. By the end of this decade, instead of 45K attempted crossings a year, we could be witnessing that many a month. Or even a week.
There are no simple solutions to this. No three-word slogan is going to cut it here. It’s going to take hard work, money, resources, international cooperation and a long-term commitment from Western countries towards reducing global instability and inequality.
