Strikes

[Max Fowler]

At this point, if you don’t see that Corbyn was an active participant in some of the reputational damage he suffered, I don’t know what to say.

Why do people always bring it back to Corbin?

At this point, if you don’t see that no one could have survived the onslaught Jezza had to face from the Establishment and his own party, I don’t know what to say.

[RedDwarf 1881]

Tony Sir Tony Blair didn’t get attacked either and he wasn’t former director of public prosecutions, so I don’t think it’s that…

That's maybe because Tony Blair was a red tory . IMO, it's thanks to Blair that labour lost its dominance in Scotland to the SNP . Following tory policies and sucking up to the EU the way he did turned me away from the Labour Party and the EU at the same time . I now classify myself as a left leaning Brexiteer . Well, nobody could accuse George Galloway of being right wing . The area I live in is cast iron Labour so it doesn't really matter which way I vote at the next election because labour is winning around here regardless . I haven't made up my mind yet which way to vote but it'll be either Labour or Reform party . I''ve never voted Tory in a general election and never will .

[Max Fowler]

Maybe that’s why they don’t seem to mind Sir Kier Starmer?

[Dunners]

Do you reckon he's one of 'them'?

[Max Fowler]

He’s been given a knighthood so they obviously think so.

[E10EU]

He proudly announced to the national media that he kissed a Tory and that many Tories are his lifelong friends.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... med-labour

Why is he trying to parade as 'Labour' then?

[Max Fowler]

Don’t worry, Labour have got the Tories backs when it comes to the hostile unions!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... th-unions/

[Long slender neck]

He proudly announced to the national media that he kissed a Tory and that many Tories are his lifelong friends.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... med-labour

Why is he trying to parade as 'Labour' then?

Because to win an election he has to convince a lot of Tories to vote Labour. Duh!

[CEB]

This.
I want a left wing labour government. I’d love to have one, and I supported/invested in the argument that a left wing Labour Party would motivate enough young voters/non voters to come out that it would mitigate/subvert that. In two elections it turned out to not be the case, and ended up alienating some importantly placed usual Labour voters who were not convinced. So understandably, there’s a focus on winning over sceptical voters. I know it’s incredibly fashionable to dismiss this pragmatism as dull centrism, but it doesn’t make it any less true.
It’s not all bad though - at least when Labour get in, there’ll apparently be plenty of material for Orient adjacent, toe-curlingly literal folk groups to write about

[Max Fowler]

He proudly announced to the national media that he kissed a Tory and that many Tories are his lifelong friends.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... med-labour

Why is he trying to parade as 'Labour' then?

Because to win an election he has to convince a lot of Tories to vote Labour. Duh!

You’ve answered the question ‘Why is he trying to parade as Tory then?’ which is obviously completely different.

I guess he could be pretending he’s not left wing to win over tories. It could also be that he’s just actually not left wing.

[Dunners]

Of course he's not left wing. He'll be as centre-right as any party leader needs to be to win a general election. But that doesn't mean a Labour government won't be better than a Tory one, as you'll still get some progressive policies.

The real battle by anyone on the economic left is to be fought on the picket lines and in other forms of disobedience.

[Max B Gold]

Of course he's not left wing. He'll be as centre-right as any party leader needs to be to win a general election. But that doesn't mean a Labour government won't be better than a Tory one, as you'll still get some progressive policies.

The real battle by anyone on the economic left is to be fought on the picket lines and in other forms of disobedience.

Whilst supporting workers in struggle is extremely important. It is more important to build a revolutionary party because this side of the socialist revolution, the revolutionaries are a minority.

[tuffers#1]

He proudly announced to the national media that he kissed a Tory and that many Tories are his lifelong friends.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... med-labour

Why is he trying to parade as 'Labour' then?

Because to win an election he has to convince a lot of Tories to vote Labour. Duh!

No he had to convince STUPID ordinary people not to vote T@ry , what the Labour Left always forgets is lots of ordinary People are STUPID & the T@ries play on STUPID peoples FEARS !

[Max Fowler]

Good to see Sirkier coming out against the greedy, selfish nurses this morning. Go get 'em, Kizza!

[Long slender neck]

Lets look at what he actually said

Keir Starmer has been on LBC doing his regular ‘Call Keir’ phone-in.

Q: I don’t seen any sense of politicians showing a sense of duty. They should put the country first. Will Labour stand up to the unions and prevent strikes ruining society. President Putin must welcome this.

Starmer said unions did not want to go on strike. The nurses have never held a strike before.

He said it was “bizarre” that the government is refusing to negotiate with the nurses, when they say they are willing to pause their strike if talks resume.

The government are “stitting on their hands”, he says.

For the government to sit this out with two or three days to go, I think shows a profound lack of leadership. We need the government to get around the table.

He said as head of the CPS he had to negotiate with two unions. That is what he did.

Q: Why should people be guaranteed a pay rise every year? If you are in sales, you don’t get that. Putin is rubbing his hands over this.

Starmer said it was very hard to say to nurses they should not get a pay rise. However, he added:

I do accept that what they are asking for is probably more than can be afforded.

[Long slender neck]

Good to see Sirkier coming out against the greedy, selfish nurses this morning. Go get 'em, Kizza!

You'll get a warning for posting misinformation if you carry on.

[Long slender neck]

He said 19% was “more than can be afforded by the government”.

Despite being underpaid for probably decades, 19% doe seem like fantasy.

[BoniO]

Good to see Sirkier coming out against the greedy, selfish nurses this morning. Go get 'em, Kizza!

You'll get a warning for posting misinformation if you carry on.

Blimey - he might as well chuck it in now if you enforce that rule.

[CEB]

But also - even if he thinks 19% is achievable and proportionate, saying so right now would briefly assuage the people who are already going to vote for him, while making him vulnerable to the whims of those who will only vote for him if they consider him credible.
It’s grotty and grubby but it’s how it is. Again, I really don’t see how left wing people who had a left wing Labour Party can’t see why it’s a necessary approach. I don’t like it, and ideally I’d want a government that was as if tailored to my beliefs and positions, but reality clashes with that at some point. I’d rather we deal with reality now, rather than get to the point where we’re shocked that Labour lose again.

[Proposition Joe]

True, we can never want anything better and our political parties from all sides of the spectrum (far right to centre right) should only tell us that we can eat sh*t and smile about it otherwise we're childish idealists.

[Long slender neck]

Can you just get behind the lad and cheer him onto downing street and then slag him off afterwards?

[Proposition Joe]

No.

[CEB]

True, we can never want anything better and our political parties from all sides of the spectrum (far right to centre right) should only tell us that we can eat sh*t and smile about it otherwise we're childish idealists.

We can and should absolutely want better. We should also probably recognise that the first step is “a little bit better”, and that recognition of that fact is especially important after two general elections where a more idealistic party was rejected at the polls, first narrowly, then overwhelmingly.

Again - I don’t particularly like it, but I see why it’s currently the way it is. Nobody seems to be engaging with this bit: we have to convince people who voted Tory to vote Labour if we want any sort of Labour government. I’m not even saying don’t moan about it (that’ll help!!) I’m just a bit baffled that there’s no acknowledgment of why an opposition who is effectively a government in waiting, would be focused on not saying or doing anything to cause floating Tories to waver on their tentative decision that they’ve had enough of the Tories. Once Labour is in, then absolutely it needs to be that they’re under pressure to be a Labour Party.

[Max Fowler]

Good to see Sirkier coming out against the greedy, selfish nurses this morning. Go get 'em, Kizza!

You'll get a warning for posting misinformation if you carry on.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/k ... r-AA15aliA

There you go mate.

[Max Fowler]

But also - even if he thinks 19% is achievable and proportionate, saying so right now would briefly assuage the people who are already going to vote for him, while making him vulnerable to the whims of those who will only vote for him if they consider him credible.
It’s grotty and grubby but it’s how it is. Again, I really don’t see how left wing people who had a left wing Labour Party can’t see why it’s a necessary approach. I don’t like it, and ideally I’d want a government that was as if tailored to my beliefs and positions, but reality clashes with that at some point. I’d rather we deal with reality now, rather than get to the point where we’re shocked that Labour lose again.

If I thought there was any chance this was a charade, and once in power he would give the nurses a proper pay rise, then yeah. But he won't.