Is bringing a life into existence a good or bad act?

[The Reverend]

For many, this question will seem foolish. Of course having children is a good thing, they will say.

However, there is a position which states that not only is having children not a good thing, it is actually a morally bad thing to do.

The basic structure of this argument goes that somebody cannot be harmed by NOT being bought into existence.

In contrast, bringing somebody into existence has the potential to bring great harm to that person via suffering.

A step even further goes that even if somebody has a great life by bringing them into existence they are forced to be conscious, and the price of consciousness is the awareness that they and everyone they love will inevitably die one day. This causes great anxiety to the conscious being and one could argue is a great harm to them.

So there you have it.

1. Don’t have a child. Nobody gets hurt as they never exist to be hurt and they don’t have to suffer the psychological hurt of knowing that they will die one day

2. Have a child. They are at risk of suffering all manner of physical and/or psychological hurt during their life and even if they manage to avoid all of that they still have to live with knowledge of the sting of death

What are your thoughts?

[BoniO]

You’re an annoying pillock?

[Chicken Dhansak]

Do you have any interest in Leyton Orient
Football Club at all?

[Dunners]

Nobody chooses to have kids, do they? I thought what happened was that one day your missus tells you there's been an accident and now you're going to be broke for a few decades.

[The Reverend]

Do you have any interest in Leyton Orient
Football Club at all?

Yes, I do.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Having a kid is the best thing I’ve ever done. Easily.

Saying that, it is a selfish act for some of the reasons you state. Also a case of finite resources being used by another human in an already overpopulated world. There’s also already a lot of kids already out there who desperately need a home. But I still did it.

We have one and I don’t think there will be another but I think we’d consider adopting at some point. Maybe once the trauma of looking after a small human has subsided.

[CEB]

Your question has a flawed premise; it uses only “hurt” and “suffering” as examples of the experiences that come with being alive.

You could make an exact equivalent argument with the opposite false premise; “Not bringing a life into the world means that the joy that the hypothetical person may have experienced definitely won’t exist, while bringing a life into the world brings potential to experience all types of joy”

I don’t necessarily agree with either take, but the full range of experiences are essential when discussing such things

[Dunners]

Having a kid is the best thing I’ve ever done. Easily.

Saying that, it is a selfish act for some of the reasons you state. Also a case of finite resources being used by another human in an already overpopulated world. There’s also already a lot of kids already out there who desperately need a home. But I still did it.

We have one and I don’t think there will be another but I think we’d consider adopting at some point. Maybe once the trauma of looking after a small human has subsided.

The latest UN demographic data suggests that the human population will peak by mid-century and then go into decline. We may well be living at the moment when there is the most amount of humans that will ever exist. So ease your guilt and ignore all that "overpopulated world" guff. Have as many kids as you want.

[StillSpike]

For some reason this thread has put me in mind of the following scene

(Nicolas Cage) "Oh, just some terrorists decided to send a little care package. Box of goodies. Which had to be neutralized before blowing up the office --"
(Nicolas Cage) "So I took the rest of the day off. Glass of wine, little guitar -- Just relax."
(Carla) "Wow."
(Nicolas Cage) "I mean it, honey, the world is being Fed-exed to hell in a hand cart. I really believe anyone thinking even thinking of bringing a child into the world is coldly considering an act of cruelty."
(Nicolas Cage) "I know, I'm rambling, I'm complaining, I'm sorry. What's your news, baby?"
(Carla) "I'm pregnant."

Carla) "You didn't mean what you just said, did you?"
(Nicolas Cage) "When?"
(Carla) "Just right now, when you were talking about bringing a child into the world, and having it be an act of cruelty."
(Nicolas Cage) "I meant it at the time."
(Carla) "Stanley, "at the time"? You said it seven and a half seconds ago."
(Nicolas Cage) "Well -- gosh, kind of a lot's happened since then."

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Having a kid is the best thing I’ve ever done. Easily.

Saying that, it is a selfish act for some of the reasons you state. Also a case of finite resources being used by another human in an already overpopulated world. There’s also already a lot of kids already out there who desperately need a home. But I still did it.

We have one and I don’t think there will be another but I think we’d consider adopting at some point. Maybe once the trauma of looking after a small human has subsided.

The latest UN demographic data suggests that the human population will peak by mid-century and then go into decline. We may well be living at the moment when there is the most amount of humans that will ever exist. So ease your guilt and ignore all that "overpopulated world" guff. Have as many kids as you want.

Sweet. Mind if I quote you word for word in bed tonight to the missus?

[Everbrite]

For many, this question will seem foolish. Of course having children is a good thing, they will say.

However, there is a position which states that not only is having children not a good thing, it is actually a morally bad thing to do.

The basic structure of this argument goes that somebody cannot be harmed by NOT being bought into existence.

In contrast, bringing somebody into existence has the potential to bring great harm to that person via suffering.

A step even further goes that even if somebody has a great life by bringing them into existence they are forced to be conscious, and the price of consciousness is the awareness that they and everyone they love will inevitably die one day. This causes great anxiety to the conscious being and one could argue is a great harm to them.

So there you have it.

1. Don’t have a child. Nobody gets hurt as they never exist to be hurt and they don’t have to suffer the psychological hurt of knowing that they will die one day

2. Have a child. They are at risk of suffering all manner of physical and/or psychological hurt during their life and even if they manage to avoid all of that they still have to live with knowledge of the sting of death

What are your thoughts?

You are a complete wassock.
Regards, Tony.

[Adz]

In answer to the op it's neither. Not all actions can be framed in a good/bad comparison

[The Reverend]

Your question has a flawed premise; it uses only “hurt” and “suffering” as examples of the experiences that come with being alive.

You could make an exact equivalent argument with the opposite false premise; “Not bringing a life into the world means that the joy that the hypothetical person may have experienced definitely won’t exist, while bringing a life into the world brings potential to experience all types of joy”

I don’t necessarily agree with either take, but the full range of experiences are essential when discussing such things

This is very true. Although for every life that is bought into existence there is a risk that the suffering will outweigh the good. It’s a gamble you’re taking on someone else’s behalf when you bring them into existence.

Also, knowing that you have to die one day is an unavoidable type of suffering which all bought into existence have to endure. So you could argue that all lives start off at NET negative because of this.

[Type high]

For many, this question will seem foolish. Of course having children is a good thing, they will say.

However, there is a position which states that not only is having children not a good thing, it is actually a morally bad thing to do.

The basic structure of this argument goes that somebody cannot be harmed by NOT being bought into existence.

In contrast, bringing somebody into existence has the potential to bring great harm to that person via suffering.

A step even further goes that even if somebody has a great life by bringing them into existence they are forced to be conscious, and the price of consciousness is the awareness that they and everyone they love will inevitably die one day. This causes great anxiety to the conscious being and one could argue is a great harm to them.

So there you have it.

1. Don’t have a child. Nobody gets hurt as they never exist to be hurt and they don’t have to suffer the psychological hurt of knowing that they will die one day

2. Have a child. They are at risk of suffering all manner of physical and/or psychological hurt during their life and even if they manage to avoid all of that they still have to live with knowledge of the sting of death

What are your thoughts?

What a load of crap

[The Reverend]

For many, this question will seem foolish. Of course having children is a good thing, they will say.

However, there is a position which states that not only is having children not a good thing, it is actually a morally bad thing to do.

The basic structure of this argument goes that somebody cannot be harmed by NOT being bought into existence.

In contrast, bringing somebody into existence has the potential to bring great harm to that person via suffering.

A step even further goes that even if somebody has a great life by bringing them into existence they are forced to be conscious, and the price of consciousness is the awareness that they and everyone they love will inevitably die one day. This causes great anxiety to the conscious being and one could argue is a great harm to them.

So there you have it.

1. Don’t have a child. Nobody gets hurt as they never exist to be hurt and they don’t have to suffer the psychological hurt of knowing that they will die one day

2. Have a child. They are at risk of suffering all manner of physical and/or psychological hurt during their life and even if they manage to avoid all of that they still have to live with knowledge of the sting of death

What are your thoughts?

What a load of crap

How so?

[tuffers#1]

For many, this question will seem foolish. Of course having children is a good thing, they will say.

However, there is a position which states that not only is having children not a good thing, it is actually a morally bad thing to do.

The basic structure of this argument goes that somebody cannot be harmed by NOT being bought into existence.

In contrast, bringing somebody into existence has the potential to bring great harm to that person via suffering.

A step even further goes that even if somebody has a great life by bringing them into existence they are forced to be conscious, and the price of consciousness is the awareness that they and everyone they love will inevitably die one day. This causes great anxiety to the conscious being and one could argue is a great harm to them.

So there you have it.

1. Don’t have a child. Nobody gets hurt as they never exist to be hurt and they don’t have to suffer the psychological hurt of knowing that they will die one day

2. Have a child. They are at risk of suffering all manner of physical and/or psychological hurt during their life and even if they manage to avoid all of that they still have to live with knowledge of the sting of death

What are your thoughts?

Can we not just blame God for a Bad day in his 1st week ?

[Type high]

For many, this question will seem foolish. Of course having children is a good thing, they will say.

However, there is a position which states that not only is having children not a good thing, it is actually a morally bad thing to do.

The basic structure of this argument goes that somebody cannot be harmed by NOT being bought into existence.

In contrast, bringing somebody into existence has the potential to bring great harm to that person via suffering.

A step even further goes that even if somebody has a great life by bringing them into existence they are forced to be conscious, and the price of consciousness is the awareness that they and everyone they love will inevitably die one day. This causes great anxiety to the conscious being and one could argue is a great harm to them.

So there you have it.

1. Don’t have a child. Nobody gets hurt as they never exist to be hurt and they don’t have to suffer the psychological hurt of knowing that they will die one day

2. Have a child. They are at risk of suffering all manner of physical and/or psychological hurt during their life and even if they manage to avoid all of that they still have to live with knowledge of the sting of death

What are your thoughts?

What a load of crap

How so?

The most natural thing in the world that is inbuilt into us without which we wouldn't be here and you try and put a downer on it

[The Reverend]

What a load of crap

How so?

The most natural thing in the world that is inbuilt into us without which we wouldn't be here and you try and put a downer on it

Something being natural doesn’t make it automatically morally right. That is known as the is/ought fallacy.

Also, I’m not putting a downer on anything. I’m asking people what they think.

[Type high]

How so?

The most natural thing in the world that is inbuilt into us without which we wouldn't be here and you try and put a downer on it

Something being natural doesn’t make it automatically morally right. That is known as the is/ought fallacy.

Also, I’m not putting a downer on anything. I’m asking people what they think.

Morals have nothing to do with it as you full well know Your just trying to build a conversation around the most natural thing that keeps us going all these years. Bet you're a joy down the pub not

[Dunners]

So long as he gets a round in, downer or not, he'll be welcome down the pub.

[Max Fowler]

A round?

[Dunners]

...or two.

[Type high]

So long as he gets a round in, downer or not, he'll be welcome down the pub.

Wouldn't drink with him anyway, such a happy-go-lucky ain't he. not

[DrWindy]

Having a conversation with your 5 year old daughter that she will die one day shouldn’t be trivialised. It’s actually quite thought provoking and ultimately very sad.

[Max B Gold]

Having a conversation with your 5 year old daughter that she will die one day shouldn’t be trivialised. It’s actually quite thought provoking and ultimately very sad.

Just tell her about Heaven then she will be fine and look forward to the life ever lasting.