Labour Watch

[Max B Gold]

All the Labour Files vids at your finger tips. Watch and learn.

[Max Fowler]

Could the far left stfu until Sir Kier has the next election in the bag?

Just like the far right of the Labour party shut up when Corbyn had the 2017 election in the bag?

when exactly was that then?

2017 mate.

[Long slender neck]

Evidence that it was in the bag?

[Max B Gold]

That would appear to be a load of bollox.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mint-press-news/

Probably is, though I wonder why Mintpress don't correct it. One man's bollox is another man's truth.

Here's a Jewish woman dealing out some truths

[faldO]

What part of Cooks article are you disagreeing with?

Here's another of his pieces where he points out that Jews are six times more likely to be expelled from the Labour Party than a non Jewish member.

Get your teeth into that and get down Labour HQ to protest against this blatant Antisemitism.

I'm not disagreeing with any of it. What lead you to that conclusion?

I'm well aware of the problem of antisemitism in the Labour Party, it's been highlighted enough times. It's appalling.

[Max Fowler]

Evidence that it was in the bag?

Ok, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.

[Max Fowler]

What part of Cooks article are you disagreeing with?

Here's another of his pieces where he points out that Jews are six times more likely to be expelled from the Labour Party than a non Jewish member.

Get your teeth into that and get down Labour HQ to protest against this blatant Antisemitism.

I'm not disagreeing with any of it. What lead you to that conclusion?

I'm well aware of the problem of antisemitism in the Labour Party, it's been highlighted enough times. It's appalling.

Yes but it stopped in 2019, didn't it?

[faldO]

What part of Cooks article are you disagreeing with?

Here's another of his pieces where he points out that Jews are six times more likely to be expelled from the Labour Party than a non Jewish member.

Get your teeth into that and get down Labour HQ to protest against this blatant Antisemitism.

I'm not disagreeing with any of it. What lead you to that conclusion?

I'm well aware of the problem of antisemitism in the Labour Party, it's been highlighted enough times. It's appalling.

Yes but it stopped in 2019, didn't it?

No idea, ask Max, he's the expert.

[Long slender neck]

Evidence that it was in the bag?

Ok, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.

You said it was in the bag. Evidence that Jeremy had it in the bag please.

Blame the right, blame the media, blame whoever. Jez had two bites at the cherry and failed. Time to move on.

[Dunners]

Evidence that it was in the bag?

Ok, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.

I think the point he's making is that, even without the Labour right conspiring against them (which it is clear they did), Team Corbyn was never going to win in 2017. So it's a relatively mute/moot point.

We've been over this too many times, so I cannot bother digging the data out, but the key problem wasn't the number of votes. On that Labour actually did okay in 2017 and 2019. It was distribution of votes.

You also need to be careful not to over-state the degree to which a divided party would have put off potential voters in 2017, because there's not much evidence it did, and Corbyn at that time was even in his "honeymoon" period and had respectable approval ratings. He had, up to that point, also remained suitably vague and ambiguous on Labour's brexit position. Equally, it cannot be understated just what a disaster May's election campaign was, which Team Corbyn failed to fully capitalise on.

Labour lost in 2017 because it deserved to. And a victory was never "in the bag". Yes, it was conspired against and, yes, it did better than expected. But it deservedly lost.

And as for 2019....

[CEB]

2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.

[Max B Gold]

Evidence that it was in the bag?

Ok, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.

I think the point he's making is that, even without the Labour right conspiring against them (which it is clear they did), Team Corbyn was never going to win in 2017. So it's a relatively mute/moot point.

We've been over this too many times, so I cannot bother digging the data out, but the key problem wasn't the number of votes. On that Labour actually did okay in 2017 and 2019. It was distribution of votes.

You also need to be careful not to over-state the degree to which a divided party would have put off potential voters in 2017, because there's not much evidence it did, and Corbyn at that time was even in his "honeymoon" period and had respectable approval ratings. He had, up to that point, also remained suitably vague and ambiguous on Labour's brexit position. Equally, it cannot be understated just what a disaster May's election campaign was, which Team Corbyn failed to fully capitalise on.

Labour lost in 2017 because it deserved to. And a victory was never "in the bag". Yes, it was conspired against and, yes, it did better than expected. But it deservedly lost.

And as for 2019....

How close were they to victory and did you factor in the diversion of funds to right wing MPs seats instead of to the key marginals?

Otherwise carry on your analysis is fine.

[Max Fowler]

Evidence that it was in the bag?

Ok, you're right, the Labour right didn't plot against Corbyn and (successfully) attempt to lose the 2017 General Election.

You said it was in the bag. Evidence that Jeremy had it in the bag please.

Blame the right, blame the media, blame whoever. Jez had two bites at the cherry and failed. Time to move on.

I'm blaming the right wing of the labour party. The ones you're now asking everyone to get behind...

[Max Fowler]

I think the point he's making is that, even without the Labour right conspiring against them (which it is clear they did), Team Corbyn was never going to win in 2017. So it's a relatively mute/moot point.

Evidence please that Labour were never going to win the 2017 election.

[Max B Gold]

2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.

How was that Brexit position arrived at?

[Max Fowler]

2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.

Not true.

[CEB]

2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.

How was that Brexit position arrived at?

Depends on where you want to start counting from. My personal take is that the referendum should always have been framed consistently by Labour as David Cameron’s reckless attempt to remain in number 10, starting with active, unequivocal campaigning to vote remain. There was never any obligation for Labour to get dragged into Brexit aside from in saying “if there is to be a referendum, we support remaining”

[CEB]

Also important to remember that the last two general elections have only actually been called because of the Tories opportunistic belief (once correctly, once incorrectly) that Labour had no chance whatsoever of getting elected. I suspect that right now the tories will be less inclined to cement their leader’s place by calling for a GE.

[Max B Gold]

2019, ahhh, I remember in that November and December being shouted down by every vocal lefty on social media I knew for saying “unhelpful” things like “if Labour agrees to Boris Johnson’s demand for a general election, they are walking into a trap that will lead to humiliating defeat, because Labour’s position on Brexit will mean we definitely perform worse than 2017”. The arrogance of the lefties that would not hear that - and their cowardly “there’ll be lots said about this, now isn’t the time” in the days afterwards, was astounding and left me quite disillusioned.

How was that Brexit position arrived at?

Depends on where you want to start counting from. My personal take is that the referendum should always have been framed consistently by Labour as David Cameron’s reckless attempt to remain in number 10, starting with active, unequivocal campaigning to vote remain. There was never any obligation for Labour to get dragged into Brexit aside from in saying “if there is to be a referendum, we support remaining”

You don't think it was in any way a product of certain political forces within the Labour Party trying to impose an impossible position on the leadership then.

By the time the right attempted to impose the policy "Corbinistas" were fragmented, weak and unable to resist.

[CEB]

I’d have more sympathy for that position of Corbyn himself had ever been an active proponent for the need to remain in the EU.
I totally accept that the right of the party were motivated by a mixture of A: trying to get Corbyn out because they considered victory under him to be very unlikely and B: actually not wanting a Corbyn victory.

I don’t think that those issues change the relevance of what I said above.

[Currywurst and Chips]

"Yougov is Tory owned"

"Any other leader would be 20 points ahead"

"But 2017"

Oh

[Max B Gold]

"Yougov is Tory owned"

"Any other leader would be 20 points ahead"

"But 2017"

Oh

Captain Charisma has just got lucky against a malfunctioning robotory

[CEB]

If only the previous Labour leader had also only had to contend with a failing, inept Tory party leader who was hilariously referred to as having robotic qualities…

[Dunners]

It's no biggie.

Sam Tarry is just setting out his stall in advance of the inevitable election defeat. He was fully aware of collective responsibility and that his actions would lead to his sacking. He's no virtuous martyr.

Starmer is also just as happy with how this plays out in the key marginal constituencies with swing voters. Trade Unions also do not need Westminster politicians.

The loony left completely lose the plot again, and never pass up an opportunity to make Labour infighting the headlines. That they're more animated by this than a Tory leadership candidate suggesting they'd make striking illegal shows how irrelevant they are.

Ahem.

[Max B Gold]

Sorry but I'm failing to grasp why being animated against Tory anti worker laws is a bad thing.

Did you notice at all today's news that agency workers have been used to strike break in a school, thanks to Tory changes in the legislation that allows it.