Fair point. Because of Something Else, Doing Nothing is the best option.
On the contrary, as a qualified environmentalist I’m a great believer that we can all do our bit. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle stuff. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere the term environmentally friendly is bolox for products. The correct term is environmentally less damaging.
Even the concept of cheap Labour ain’t so simple. In many cases earning a pittance is better than earning nothing and closing down factories that pay peanuts can remove some families only source of income. Sometimes doing things that make us feel better actually make others worse off. If every chippy shut down, think of the ramifications to people whose lives depend on the industry. The answer perhaps is well managed fish stocks.
An example. A factory in Pakistan used children in the manufacture of footballs. Small hands made the job easy. The outcry to stop using child labour caused the factory to close. But for many families the children were their only source of income. The human rights people got the factory closed. What a victory. But families starved as a result.
We all know this stuff ain’t right. But we need to be careful because sometimes actions have dire consequences too. Complex issue.
I'm confused are you arguing for child labour as a solution to prevent whole families starving. Can you post a link to the starving families story. Cheers.
Confusing is exactly my point. After being involved in this area for many years, including speaking at two universities, I quickly realised the more I knew the less I really understood the issues. They are far from black and white. And no, I cannot divulge details of the company involved.
I’m the first to admit two things. The first being I know jack about the really complex issues involved as they are far from black or white and secondly I am as bad as many others in destroying our environment.
I also take with a pinch of salt companies who claime to be doing this or that to save the environment when quite often they are using this position to develop a business venture. Don’t know about these guys but greenwash is commonplace.
Fair point. Because of Something Else, Doing Nothing is the best option.
On the contrary, as a qualified environmentalist I’m a great believer that we can all do our bit. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle stuff. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere the term environmentally friendly is bolox for products. The correct term is environmentally less damaging.
Even the concept of cheap Labour ain’t so simple. In many cases earning a pittance is better than earning nothing and closing down factories that pay peanuts can remove some families only source of income. Sometimes doing things that make us feel better actually make others worse off. If every chippy shut down, think of the ramifications to people whose lives depend on the industry. The answer perhaps is well managed fish stocks.
An example. A factory in Pakistan used children in the manufacture of footballs. Small hands made the job easy. The outcry to stop using child labour caused the factory to close. But for many families the children were their only source of income. The human rights people got the factory closed. What a victory. But families starved as a result.
We all know this stuff ain’t right. But we need to be careful because sometimes actions have dire consequences too. Complex issue.
An actual argument promoting child labour. Genuinely think I've seen it all on here now.
That’s not what I said so stop being an absolute idiot. I think the “ we all know this stuff ain’t right” comment is a clue to my feelings. Just pointing out in response to your point that things are more complex that people realise.
PS in the example I quoted. What would you do. Really interested to know.
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:11 pm
Nationalise the factory and not employ kids.
You know that ain’t gonna happen. The cop out answer I expected.
But let’s explore employing adults and giving them a fair wage. The price of the products go up to support the new wages but inevitably there will be other people elsewhere who will continue to use cheap Labour.
So now your products are not competitive and sales go down.
Sales go down so job losses happen. The factory being no longer viable closes and those adults have a very short life earning a living wage before they have nothing.
So unless you can create an even playing field the simple solution ain’t so simple.
This is a massive problem and every one of us who has bought cheap clothing that pollutes massively and generally made using cheap Labour is supporting this. I’m willing to bet you are too. Clothing is the second highest polluting industry all in the name of allowing us to buy cheap clothes produced using cheap Labour. The answer, I have no idea. Nor do you.
On the contrary, as a qualified environmentalist I’m a great believer that we can all do our bit. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle stuff. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere the term environmentally friendly is bolox for products. The correct term is environmentally less damaging.
Even the concept of cheap Labour ain’t so simple. In many cases earning a pittance is better than earning nothing and closing down factories that pay peanuts can remove some families only source of income. Sometimes doing things that make us feel better actually make others worse off. If every chippy shut down, think of the ramifications to people whose lives depend on the industry. The answer perhaps is well managed fish stocks.
An example. A factory in Pakistan used children in the manufacture of footballs. Small hands made the job easy. The outcry to stop using child labour caused the factory to close. But for many families the children were their only source of income. The human rights people got the factory closed. What a victory. But families starved as a result.
We all know this stuff ain’t right. But we need to be careful because sometimes actions have dire consequences too. Complex issue.
I'm confused are you arguing for child labour as a solution to prevent whole families starving. Can you post a link to the starving families story. Cheers.
Confusing is exactly my point. After being involved in this area for many years, including speaking at two universities, I quickly realised the more I knew the less I really understood the issues. They are far from black and white. And no, I cannot divulge details of the company involved.
I’m the first to admit two things. The first being I know jack about the really complex issues involved as they are far from black or white and secondly I am as bad as many others in destroying our environment.
I also take with a pinch of salt companies who claime to be doing this or that to save the environment when quite often they are using this position to develop a business venture. Don’t know about these guys but greenwash is commonplace.
As your best mate on the forum can i recommend you steer clear of complex issues in future as they clearly trouble you.
Fair point. Because of Something Else, Doing Nothing is the best option.
On the contrary, as a qualified environmentalist I’m a great believer that we can all do our bit. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle stuff. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere the term environmentally friendly is bolox for products. The correct term is environmentally less damaging.
Even the concept of cheap Labour ain’t so simple. In many cases earning a pittance is better than earning nothing and closing down factories that pay peanuts can remove some families only source of income. Sometimes doing things that make us feel better actually make others worse off. If every chippy shut down, think of the ramifications to people whose lives depend on the industry. The answer perhaps is well managed fish stocks.
An example. A factory in Pakistan used children in the manufacture of footballs. Small hands made the job easy. The outcry to stop using child labour caused the factory to close. But for many families the children were their only source of income. The human rights people got the factory closed. What a victory. But families starved as a result.
We all know this stuff ain’t right. But we need to be careful because sometimes actions have dire consequences too. Complex issue.
What a disgusting post. I'm ashamed to share the internet with people who post stuff like this.
What else do you expect from a bloke who backed the Italian owner right to the end.
Truly staggering.
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:11 pm
Nationalise the factory and not employ kids.
You know that ain’t gonna happen. The cop out answer I expected.
But let’s explore employing adults and giving them a fair wage. The price of the products go up to support the new wages but inevitably there will be other people elsewhere who will continue to use cheap Labour.
So now your products are not competitive and sales go down.
Sales go down so job losses happen. The factory being no longer viable closes and those adults have a very short life earning a living wage before they have nothing.
So unless you can create an even playing field the simple solution ain’t so simple.
This is a massive problem and every one of us who has bought cheap clothing that pollutes massively and generally made using cheap Labour is supporting this. I’m willing to bet you are too. Clothing is the second highest polluting industry all in the name of allowing us to buy cheap clothes produced using cheap Labour. The answer, I have no idea. Nor do you.
I think you will find the owners of these businesses are raking it in.
My old employer relocated to the Far East and is now a multi millionaire.
Strong Unions. That is the answer.
Proposition Joe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:11 pm
Nationalise the factory and not employ kids.
You know that ain’t gonna happen. The cop out answer I expected.
But let’s explore employing adults and giving them a fair wage. The price of the products go up to support the new wages but inevitably there will be other people elsewhere who will continue to use cheap Labour.
So now your products are not competitive and sales go down.
Sales go down so job losses happen. The factory being no longer viable closes and those adults have a very short life earning a living wage before they have nothing.
So unless you can create an even playing field the simple solution ain’t so simple.
This is a massive problem and every one of us who has bought cheap clothing that pollutes massively and generally made using cheap Labour is supporting this. I’m willing to bet you are too. Clothing is the second highest polluting industry all in the name of allowing us to buy cheap clothes produced using cheap Labour. The answer, I have no idea. Nor do you.
I think you will find the owners of these businesses are raking it in.
My old employer relocated to the Far East and is now a multi millionaire.
Strong Unions. That is the answer.
Nah , Strong unions arent the answer .
The Cpaitalist world doesnt like em .
Forget this workers rights balderdash .
We have to be servile & we should be bloody grateful for it as well.
People like Thor deserve to be Richer than Yow because hes a buisnessman
( sorry Thor dont know any other billionaires on this board , so you are my example)
The rest of us should be in awe that he does a lot of work for charitee Smashie
Well Said Nicey .
We should also happily accept the crumbs that fall from his table
I'm confused are you arguing for child labour as a solution to prevent whole families starving. Can you post a link to the starving families story. Cheers.
Confusing is exactly my point. After being involved in this area for many years, including speaking at two universities, I quickly realised the more I knew the less I really understood the issues. They are far from black and white. And no, I cannot divulge details of the company involved.
I’m the first to admit two things. The first being I know jack about the really complex issues involved as they are far from black or white and secondly I am as bad as many others in destroying our environment.
I also take with a pinch of salt companies who claime to be doing this or that to save the environment when quite often they are using this position to develop a business venture. Don’t know about these guys but greenwash is commonplace.
As your best mate on the forum can i recommend you steer clear of complex issues in future as they clearly trouble you.
Good advice Max. I'll steer well clear of serious issues beyond the comprehension of some on here. waste of time trying to have a serious debate with some people don't have the mental capacity to understand. Shame. But some people are really thick.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:54 pm
But cant these huge fashion chains just search the entire globe for the cheapest labour? So dont see how a union will help.
Yes but as Trump has been quick to show
Placing Tariffs can put a stop to that temporarily.
Normally because that country then retaliates against coke pepsi etc .
The thing to do would be a great trade deal
Oh seems no one likes those much .
U.S have ripped loads up , the uk is walking out of one
to try & go it alone ( good luck with that one ).
dOh Nut wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:29 am
Hope they don’t go on a tour of the clothes making countries. They will be walking around naked.
Fair point. Because of Something Else, Doing Nothing is the best option.
On the contrary, as a qualified environmentalist I’m a great believer that we can all do our bit. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle stuff. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere the term environmentally friendly is bolox for products. The correct term is environmentally less damaging.
Even the concept of cheap Labour ain’t so simple. In many cases earning a pittance is better than earning nothing and closing down factories that pay peanuts can remove some families only source of income. Sometimes doing things that make us feel better actually make others worse off. If every chippy shut down, think of the ramifications to people whose lives depend on the industry. The answer perhaps is well managed fish stocks.
An example. A factory in Pakistan used children in the manufacture of footballs. Small hands made the job easy. The outcry to stop using child labour caused the factory to close. But for many families the children were their only source of income. The human rights people got the factory closed. What a victory. But families starved as a result.
We all know this stuff ain’t right. But we need to be careful because sometimes actions have dire consequences too. Complex issue.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:54 pm
But cant these huge fashion chains just search the entire globe for the cheapest labour? So dont see how a union will help.
Yes but as Trump has been quick to show
Placing Tariffs can put a stop to that temporarily.
Normally because that country then retaliates against coke pepsi etc .
The thing to do would be a great trade deal
Oh seems no one likes those much .
U.S have ripped loads up , the uk is walking out of one
to try & go it alone ( good luck with that one ).
This subject is one I feel passionately about, have had a some experience of the sad realities of the situation. Quite clearly beyond the capacity of some on here to understand. To suggest I am making a claim supporting child labour would normally be insulting but I'm making allowances for the lack of understanding of those making the claim.
This is an immense issue, the cheap labour/environmental issue, and is one, like it or not, each one of us contributes too. As a society we want cheap clothing, cheap food, cheap products yet rarely do we stop and think about why they are cheap or the environmental harm involved in production. Next time you do your shopping stop and think why goods are so cheap. If you feel no responsibility can be attributed to you, think again. In fact, just think.
To believe the UK, its Government and unions can stop this is fecking ridiculous. It is a global problem requiring a global solution and I doubt that solution will happen in my lifetime. In fact the ever increasing demand will see more forests destroyed for Palm Oil, people exploited for cheap clothing and pollution increase (not to mention the UK slave trade) as we all want more and more paying less and less in the process.
It is far too serious a topic to go down the route of cheap point scoring. Those that do should feel ashamed.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:54 pm
But cant these huge fashion chains just search the entire globe for the cheapest labour? So dont see how a union will help.
Yes but as Trump has been quick to show
Placing Tariffs can put a stop to that temporarily.
Normally because that country then retaliates against coke pepsi etc .
The thing to do would be a great trade deal
Oh seems no one likes those much .
U.S have ripped loads up , the uk is walking out of one
to try & go it alone ( good luck with that one ).
A trade deal with who? What?
With them & them & them & us & them.
Not them coz there to far right & not them coz there to far left etc etc .
If trade deals are done where child exploitation can be avoided , we can do other deals that compensate other countries for what they produce , its a simple idea really
Lots do it & lots like them
1 or 2 dont like them & 1 or 2 rip them up.
1 or 2 are part of existing deals but dont want to be part of them for unclear reasons .
Hope that explians it a bit more for you
Last edited by tuffers#1 on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes but as Trump has been quick to show
Placing Tariffs can put a stop to that temporarily.
Normally because that country then retaliates against coke pepsi etc .
The thing to do would be a great trade deal
Oh seems no one likes those much .
U.S have ripped loads up , the uk is walking out of one
to try & go it alone ( good luck with that one ).
A trade deal with who? What?
With them & them & them & us & them.
Not them coz there to far right & not them coz there to far left etc etc .
If trade deals are done where child exploitation can be avoided , we can do other deals that compensate other countries for what they produce , its a simple idea really
Lots do it & lots like them
1 or 2 dont like them & 1 or 2 rip them up.
1 or 2 are part of existing deals but dont want to be part of them for unclear reasons .
With them & them & them & us & them.
Not them coz there to far right & not them coz there to far left etc etc .
If trade deals are done where child exploitation can be avoided , we can do other deals that compensate other countries for what they produce , its a simple idea really
Lots do it & lots like them
1 or 2 dont like them & 1 or 2 rip them up.
1 or 2 are part of existing deals but dont want to be part of them for unclear reasons .
Hope that explians it a bit more for you
that'll work.
Dont blame me
I only came in for Fish & Chips & some tw*t started banging on about clothing industry instead !!
This cheap labour is a result of the GATT agreement signed in the early 1990s which opened the market up to 4.7 billion people in the Far East to tariff free access. I suggest everyone look at a 10 minute video on YouTube where James Goldsmith explains the future result of this with incredible accuracy.
