Letting people drown on a large scale wont happen, so what other options are there?
I’d like to think you’re right, but I wouldn't rule it out of hand. There’s been reports of Italian and Greek vessels ‘shoving’ migrant dinghies back in the direction of the shore they came from. This kind of action always has the potential to escalate, especially as it is normalised.
It's a proper sh*t-show over there. What Lukashenko is doing is evil, but we have a situation where the Lithuanian, Polish and Belarussian authorities are not going to risk losing face. So the migrants trapped there are proper f*cked, with the risk of a high death toll increasing.
It will be interesting to see how Germany and Russia intervening affects things. Hopefully the airlines flying people in to Minsk can be made to stop and that news of this gets back to the migrants' home countries and puts off others from falling into the trap.
Let me get this right, the Belarus dictator is intentionally flying people in from the middle east and trying to force them into Poland as 'revenge' on the eu for sanctions? It is mad to see people used as weapons.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:04 pm
Let me get this right, the Belarus dictator is intentionally flying people in from the middle east and trying to force them into Poland as 'revenge' on the eu for sanctions? It is mad to see people used as weapons.
Yes. Although there is more to it than that. He is doing this with the full support of Putin, who is happy to exploit any opportunity to try and undermine EU unity. And it's a good tactic in that respect, especially with Germany being so reliant on Russia for gas.
Ah, more of the picture of what Lukashenko and Putin are up to is beginning to reveal itself. Aside from using migrants to undermine and attack the EU, it may be part of a wider play that includes military action and further annexation of Ukrainian territory.
The pattern is that the locations where migrants have been thrown against borders started in the Baltic states, and has been progressing further south along the Polish border. Anticipating that this may eventually reach their border, the Ukrainian government has mobilised troops to reinforce the border it shares with Belarus.
The US is also now briefing the EU that they have intelligence that suggests Russia is considering a further invasion into Ukraine, especially while its attention is being drawn elsewhere. There are reports of a high number of Russian troops and vehicles amassing near the border and that some units have already covertly entered into Ukraine.
Poland is now sending military reinforcements to its border and our MoD has confirmed its sending a small team over to provide some minor technical support. While it may be a small show of support from the UK, it is no doubt intended to send a message to Russia and Belarus that we'll stand with Poland. It is possibly also a cheeky way of the UK undermining the EU to some extent.
Things are certainly getting more interesting over there.
Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:02 pm
Ah, more of the picture of what Lukashenko and Putin are up to is beginning to reveal itself. Aside from using migrants to undermine and attack the EU, it may be part of a wider play that includes military action and further annexation of Ukrainian territory.
The pattern is that the locations where migrants have been thrown against borders started in the Baltic states, and has been progressing further south along the Polish border. Anticipating that this may eventually reach their border, the Ukrainian government has mobilised troops to reinforce the border it shares with Belarus.
The US is also now briefing the EU that they have intelligence that suggests Russia is considering a further invasion into Ukraine, especially while its attention is being drawn elsewhere. There are reports of a high number of Russian troops and vehicles amassing near the border and that some units have already covertly entered into Ukraine.
Poland is now sending military reinforcements to its border and our MoD has confirmed its sending a small team over to provide some minor technical support. While it may be a small show of support from the UK, it is no doubt intended to send a message to Russia and Belarus that we'll stand with Poland. It is possibly also a cheeky way of the UK undermining the EU to some extent.
Things are certainly getting more interesting over there.
Dunners wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:02 pm
Ah, more of the picture of what Lukashenko and Putin are up to is beginning to reveal itself. Aside from using migrants to undermine and attack the EU, it may be part of a wider play that includes military action and further annexation of Ukrainian territory.
The pattern is that the locations where migrants have been thrown against borders started in the Baltic states, and has been progressing further south along the Polish border. Anticipating that this may eventually reach their border, the Ukrainian government has mobilised troops to reinforce the border it shares with Belarus.
The US is also now briefing the EU that they have intelligence that suggests Russia is considering a further invasion into Ukraine, especially while its attention is being drawn elsewhere. There are reports of a high number of Russian troops and vehicles amassing near the border and that some units have already covertly entered into Ukraine.
Poland is now sending military reinforcements to its border and our MoD has confirmed its sending a small team over to provide some minor technical support. While it may be a small show of support from the UK, it is no doubt intended to send a message to Russia and Belarus that we'll stand with Poland. It is possibly also a cheeky way of the UK undermining the EU to some extent.
Things are certainly getting more interesting over there.
Interesting. Source?
A few sources scattered around the internet, including but not limited to:
Not sure how sending thousands of migrants to the EU will destabilise them when multiple studies have shown migrants give more than they take in tax and enrich the fabric of society
I have a bad feeling that things are going to get a lot worse on the border today.
Belarus has been spreading misinformation through all the migrant camps that Poland is going to open the border at the Kuźnica-Bruzgi crossing today. Huge crowds are now building at that point, with rumours that some immigrants have been given tear gas grenades and a few other basic weapons. Poland will not stand down and, if a single migrant uses anything that could be defined as a weapon against the Polish forces they may feel justified in retaliating.
There's also reports of Belarussian troops firing (probably blank) rounds in and amongst the trees near the border. It's all adding to a growing sense of unease and tension. Any migrants that attempt to turn back are being beaten by the Belarussian troops and forced back towards the border fence.
Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:01 pm
I have a bad feeling that things are going to get a lot worse on the border today.
Belarus has been spreading misinformation through all the migrant camps that Poland is going to open the border at the Kuźnica-Bruzgi crossing today. Huge crowds are now building at that point, with rumours that some immigrants have been given tear gas grenades and a few other basic weapons. Poland will not stand down and, if a single migrant uses anything that could be defined as a weapon against the Polish forces they may feel justified in retaliating.
There's also reports of Belarussian troops firing (probably blank) rounds in and amongst the trees near the border. It's all adding to a growing sense of unease and tension. Any migrants that attempt to turn back are being beaten by the Belarussian troops and forced back towards the border fence.
The Poles need to lighten up and let them in. Considering the number of their countrymen who have come to the UK there must be jobs and houses for them.
My taxi mate Michal says the foreigners should be kept out. I asked if that policy should only be applied the day after he arrived in the UK. Now he doesn't talk to me much these days other than to grill me about the tax issues on importing tons of screws and nails he has sourced in Eastern Europe (presumably Poland but he is keeping tight lipped on that for now) and selling them on the internet. He does make me laugh though.
The EU has negotiated with Iraq for migrants trapped at the border to be offered free flights back home. Assuming that Belarus lets them leave, that may be the least worst option for them right now.
Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:01 pm
I have a bad feeling that things are going to get a lot worse on the border today.
Belarus has been spreading misinformation through all the migrant camps that Poland is going to open the border at the Kuźnica-Bruzgi crossing today. Huge crowds are now building at that point, with rumours that some immigrants have been given tear gas grenades and a few other basic weapons. Poland will not stand down and, if a single migrant uses anything that could be defined as a weapon against the Polish forces they may feel justified in retaliating.
There's also reports of Belarussian troops firing (probably blank) rounds in and amongst the trees near the border. It's all adding to a growing sense of unease and tension. Any migrants that attempt to turn back are being beaten by the Belarussian troops and forced back towards the border fence.
Do you think the uk is under threat as well
or is this just more training exercises ?
Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:01 pm
I have a bad feeling that things are going to get a lot worse on the border today.
Belarus has been spreading misinformation through all the migrant camps that Poland is going to open the border at the Kuźnica-Bruzgi crossing today. Huge crowds are now building at that point, with rumours that some immigrants have been given tear gas grenades and a few other basic weapons. Poland will not stand down and, if a single migrant uses anything that could be defined as a weapon against the Polish forces they may feel justified in retaliating.
There's also reports of Belarussian troops firing (probably blank) rounds in and amongst the trees near the border. It's all adding to a growing sense of unease and tension. Any migrants that attempt to turn back are being beaten by the Belarussian troops and forced back towards the border fence.
Do you think the uk is under threat as well
or is this just more training exercises ?
Dunners wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:01 pm
I have a bad feeling that things are going to get a lot worse on the border today.
Belarus has been spreading misinformation through all the migrant camps that Poland is going to open the border at the Kuźnica-Bruzgi crossing today. Huge crowds are now building at that point, with rumours that some immigrants have been given tear gas grenades and a few other basic weapons. Poland will not stand down and, if a single migrant uses anything that could be defined as a weapon against the Polish forces they may feel justified in retaliating.
There's also reports of Belarussian troops firing (probably blank) rounds in and amongst the trees near the border. It's all adding to a growing sense of unease and tension. Any migrants that attempt to turn back are being beaten by the Belarussian troops and forced back towards the border fence.
Do you think the uk is under threat as well
or is this just more training exercises ?
Nah, just a bit of friendly rivalry. We do the same to them in the Black Sea. The UK and Russia like to keep each other on our toes.
Ah , so that must be the reason a soldier on the ground
interviewed by itv during the crimea annexation
said maybe brussels may be even London , why not
when asked if there maybe further Russian invasions
in the future .
The ITV reporter seemed horrified as i think they meant Latvia Lithuainia Estonia .
A big gulp was heard on air !
Of course it will get worse. The internet is a game changer for the mass movement of people. Not only because it’s easier to sort out the smuggling routes or watching the weather before you depart. It’s a game changer because it’s opened the eyes of people that live in undesirable locations to the wider world. There are billions of people who live in undesirable locations. You only have to look on YouTube and see the comments when a video of a train ride through Switzerland is posted as a random example. There are many thousands of comments underneath about how one day I will come to Europe, get my family to Europe, move from where I live etc etc. Another example but for the more middle class is the NC500 the Scottish road route invented by tourism Scotland a few years ago to fill up a few coffee shops around Scotland. Now local communities can’t handle the volume of traffic. This route became an internet sensation and bang. Millions of tourists driving around midge infested, rain soaked Scotland. This is all before global warming has decimated whole countries of course. The next 20 years this is going to be either frightening or enlightening to indigenous populations depending on your point of view. We ain’t seen nothing yet.
Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:02 pm
Of course it will get worse. The internet is a game changer for the mass movement of people. Not only because it’s easier to sort out the smuggling routes or watching the weather before you depart. It’s a game changer because it’s opened the eyes of people that live in undesirable locations to the wider world. There are billions of people who live in undesirable locations. You only have to look on YouTube and see the comments when a video of a train ride through Switzerland is posted as a random example. There are many thousands of comments underneath about how one day I will come to Europe, get my family to Europe, move from where I live etc etc. Another example but for the more middle class is the NC500 the Scottish road route invented by tourism Scotland a few years ago to fill up a few coffee shops around Scotland. Now local communities can’t handle the volume of traffic. This route became an internet sensation and bang. Millions of tourists driving around midge infested, rain soaked Scotland. This is all before global warming has decimated whole countries of course. The next 20 years this is going to be either frightening or enlightening to indigenous populations depending on your point of view. We ain’t seen nothing yet.
Surely the NC500 was always there but
just wasnt well known ?
A bit like the Wild Atlantic Way down the west coast of Ireland .
Its always been there as such but only recently has it been
named the Wild atlantic way .
Over thirty dead today trying to make the crossing, unfortunately it might become more regular as the numbers crossing keep increasing and the weather worsens
What I don't understand is, if these people are allegedly paying thousands for the benefit of being smuggled. Why don't they just pay for the tourist visa and flights and then claim asylum when they rock up at Heathrow?
![[##]](./images/smilies/flag-united-kingdom_1f1ec-1f1e7.png "Jack"){kind=small}
