Beradogs wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:39 am
Most foxes in the countryside have been dumped there by well meaning (and not well meaning) people from the cities. We get hundreds dropped out here. They have no survival instincts, there is barely any food and they get shot by farmers. It’s tragic. The hunt a couple of times a year is the least of their concerns. I don’t hear the same people that go apoplectic about fox hunting say a peep about halal slaughter which is 100 times worse and happens thousands of times a day. Funny that, I wonder why.
It is faintly amusing that those who care so deeply about animal welfare and who are so disgusted by the barbaric methods of slaughter in hahal so rarely say a peep about kosher slaughter. Funny that, I wonder why.
StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:05 am
It is faintly amusing that those who care so deeply about animal welfare and who are so disgusted by the barbaric methods of slaughter in hahal so rarely say a peep about kosher slaughter. Funny that, I wonder why.
Same thing above - you've got some dunderhead saying he hates foxes and they deserve to be ripped to shreds, then in the next breath he's whinging that halal is barbaric.
Thor wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:26 am
Halal is a disgrace and should not be allowed, it’s barbaric and disgusting how those animals are treated.
If you are so concerned about animal welfare why not extend that emotion further and agree that the way we treat all animals is barbaric. We murder and eat them and not always humanely.
On a separate but main thrust of this thread has anyone seen Boris. Is he in the shed? Is he under the bed?
He's refusing to come out and be scrutinised . The fear is that he will say something stupid and ruin his chance of becoming PM but the Tory party members are still prepared to put him into No 10. Mental. This country.
StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:05 am
It is faintly amusing that those who care so deeply about animal welfare and who are so disgusted by the barbaric methods of slaughter in hahal so rarely say a peep about kosher slaughter. Funny that, I wonder why.
Same thing above - you've got some dunderhead saying he hates foxes and they deserve to be ripped to shreds, then in the next breath he's whinging that halal is barbaric.
Show me where i said they should be ripped to shreds? I hate foxes, doesn't mean I want them to die.
StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:05 am
It is faintly amusing that those who care so deeply about animal welfare and who are so disgusted by the barbaric methods of slaughter in hahal so rarely say a peep about kosher slaughter. Funny that, I wonder why.
Same thing above - you've got some dunderhead saying he hates foxes and they deserve to be ripped to shreds, then in the next breath he's whinging that halal is barbaric.
Show me where i said they should be ripped to shreds? I hate foxes, doesn't mean I want them to die.
So mr big mouth show me where I said that?
Calm down, dear. Where did I name you? There are other dunderheads on this forum.
Same thing above - you've got some dunderhead saying he hates foxes and they deserve to be ripped to shreds, then in the next breath he's whinging that halal is barbaric.
Show me where i said they should be ripped to shreds? I hate foxes, doesn't mean I want them to die.
So mr big mouth show me where I said that?
Calm down, dear. Where did I name you? There are other dunderheads on this forum.
True enough but he is the ring leader of the Dunderheids.
StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:05 am
It is faintly amusing that those who care so deeply about animal welfare and who are so disgusted by the barbaric methods of slaughter in hahal so rarely say a peep about kosher slaughter. Funny that, I wonder why.
StillSpike wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:05 am
It is faintly amusing that those who care so deeply about animal welfare and who are so disgusted by the barbaric methods of slaughter in hahal so rarely say a peep about kosher slaughter. Funny that, I wonder why.
I can tell you that I hate both.
Is that Muslims and Jews or halal and kosher, be specific when you use the emotive word hate.
Also, that's pretty odd - given that the austerity programme was only introduced in 2010.
You're not just making sh*t up and tossing it out in the hope that folk will believe it, are you? You've made these claims before on here and I've yet to see your workings....
Look at the stats , when was the last time we had a budget surplus? That is the last time we had austerity.
Austerity is a media thing. Nothing to do with reality.
The overall tax we pay is high. I had no idea just how high it is. These figures I understand come from the obr.
I an too busy working to undertake the research.
Bonkers, I presume you don't think of yourself as an economist but insist on a strict definition of "austerity" (a budget surplus). Unless we are living through good times and generating significant tax receipts your definition means that the public services are being decimated even more than they are now. Stick to the football bro!
Unfortunately, I have a sound understanding of economics. I was actually saying something very different. That even with the current austerity measures, we are still continuing to increase borrowing. At some point something has to give
I would for example prefer a much lower cost HS2, which is feasible, to put more money into our services.
But public sector pay is still higher than the private sector - from the ons in 2017 £506 against £464. Also the average pension for public sector workers is twice that of the private sector (which I had not appreciated). So seems as if the austerity is in the private sector, which i have seen only too well.
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:43 pm
But public sector pay is still higher than the private sector - from the ons in 2017 £506 against £464. Also the average pension for public sector workers is twice that of the private sector (which I had not appreciated). So seems as if the austerity is in the private sector, which i have seen only too well.
I wonder if that's partly because they've outsourced many of the low paying public sector jobs into firms like G4S, Carillion, Sevco etc, so instead of the public sector paying decent wages, the same work is being done by private providers with their staff being paid comparatively less? I know with some of the private youth residential care providers around here, the workers are paid much less than they are if the council still ran the homes.
I guess if you strip our the lower paid (or a big chunk of them) from the Public sector, the average wage (and pensions cost) is bound to go up.
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:43 pm
But public sector pay is still higher than the private sector - from the ons in 2017 £506 against £464. Also the average pension for public sector workers is twice that of the private sector (which I had not appreciated). So seems as if the austerity is in the private sector, which i have seen only too well.
I wonder if that's partly because they've outsourced many of the low paying public sector jobs into firms like G4S, Carillion, Sevco etc, so instead of the public sector paying decent wages, the same work is being done by private providers with their staff being paid comparatively less? I know with some of the private youth residential care providers around here, the workers are paid much less than they are if the council still ran the homes.
I guess if you strip our the lower paid (or a big chunk of them) from the Public sector, the average wage (and pensions cost) is bound to go up.
Spike there are still over 5.6 million public sector workers and over 21 million private sector. The numbers outsourced are unlikely to make much difference to the private sector wages. It may reduce public sector wages, but this will be balanced by the change in pensions.
The numbers outsourced are vast. Billions and billions of pounds of labour intensive work. I’d be interested to find out how many jobs but don’t know where to start looking. I’m guessing that’s not the sort of information the government want us to know.
Spikes explanation of the difference makes perfect sense.
Easiest thing in the world is to play the public sector off against the private sector. In these non-austere times (according to Still's) there has been a race to the bottom in the private sector, especially in retail and services, with low wages and part time jobs for people who want to work full time. Don't blame Local Government, Universities etc for continuing to pay people what they are worth.
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:43 pm
But public sector pay is still higher than the private sector - from the ons in 2017 £506 against £464. Also the average pension for public sector workers is twice that of the private sector (which I had not appreciated). So seems as if the austerity is in the private sector, which i have seen only too well.
I wonder if that's partly because they've outsourced many of the low paying public sector jobs into firms like G4S, Carillion, Sevco etc, so instead of the public sector paying decent wages, the same work is being done by private providers with their staff being paid comparatively less? I know with some of the private youth residential care providers around here, the workers are paid much less than they are if the council still ran the homes.
I guess if you strip our the lower paid (or a big chunk of them) from the Public sector, the average wage (and pensions cost) is bound to go up.
Spike there are still over 5.6 million public sector workers and over 21 million private sector. The numbers outsourced are unlikely to make much difference to the private sector wages. It may reduce public sector wages, but this will be balanced by the change in pensions.
Well you can work it back with the numbers in your post to see how the averages vary.
I'm going to assume that the ons values (£506 and £464) are weekly average earnings. If so, and with your 5.6 M and 21 M workforces you can come to a quick and dirty total weekly wage bill for each sector.
So just taking 1 million workers earning £300 a week out of the Private sector and adding them back to the Public sector (even at the same wage) brings the two average wages back into line. So that, in reverse, is an indication of what may be behind the apparent disparity between Average earnings
Last edited by StillSpike on Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm reading reports that Honest Al the model bus builder has lost it and my source says to expect a steady drip of more juicy stories over the next few days.
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:45 am
I'm reading reports that Honest Al the model bus builder has lost it and my source says to expect a steady drip of more juicy stories over the next few days.
