in what?Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:49 amThere is more protein and iron than there is in an equivalent portion of beef. FACT.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 amYou'll need all that land to grow your vegetables.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:42 am
You think?
Don’t get me wrong it’s not an overnight thing. But there’s soooo many factors that meat production impacts on the environment it feels like it might be something we have to adjust to soon. Or eat lab created meat to replace it.
Aside from the obvious impact of methane, food and water, transport, etc… the land it takes that could be used to replenish the environment would be monumental as well.
Second time I've asked on this thread, as a percentage, how much of an impact is meat eating having?
Climate change.
Moderator: Long slender neck
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Re: Climate change.
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Re: Climate change.
Depends how many panels it has.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:53 amHow much leccy does a house with solar panels typically generate?Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:56 am 97% of electricity in Scotland is produced from renewables. Well done Nicola, where there is a good leader anything is possible.
Governments can and should set enforceable targets for clean energy production, install ground heating systems, insulate properties, mandate that new builds have solar power to produce and store enough energy to run homes,railways should be nationalised and fares slashed to make it a no brainer to use them rather than a car, their should be no internal flights of 1 hour or less within the UK, all electrical products should be easily repairable, all plastic containers replaced by returnable glass, and so on.
Not many people really need a car. At any one time only 10% of them are in use. It doesn't make sense to go to the shops in a one tonne vehicle to get a loaf.
There should be a leasing system where you can use a vehicle from a local pool and access it with a credit card or code and in time summon it to your front door driverlessly.
Not sure we could replace all plastic containers with glass or how much emissions are generated by their recycling.
The rest of what you're saying makes sense, but you wont see these practical ideas being demanded by swampy and co at the next protest.
It's not jusr about recycling plastic it's more about the oil used in its manufacture.
These are practical ideas that will help but until we eliminate the profit motive under capitalism we are doomed.
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Re: Climate change.
Estimate is 14-15% of green house gas emissions come from meat production. Lab grown meat has a lot riding on it, any reduction in demand for meat in the west is going to be offset by growing demand in developing world as it gets richer.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 amYou'll need all that land to grow your vegetables.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:42 amYou think?
Don’t get me wrong it’s not an overnight thing. But there’s soooo many factors that meat production impacts on the environment it feels like it might be something we have to adjust to soon. Or eat lab created meat to replace it.
Aside from the obvious impact of methane, food and water, transport, etc… the land it takes that could be used to replenish the environment would be monumental as well.
Second time I've asked on this thread, as a percentage, how much of an impact is meat eating having?
Well established that vegetables are less land intensive to produce than meat.
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Re: Climate change.
Does anyone else remember when Jeremy Corbyn said the U.K must declare a climate emergency in early 2019 and nobody listened? Once again Jeremy Corbyn was right.
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Re: Climate change.
I said typically. Dont you know?Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:58 amDepends how many panels it has.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:53 amHow much leccy does a house with solar panels typically generate?Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:56 am 97% of electricity in Scotland is produced from renewables. Well done Nicola, where there is a good leader anything is possible.
Governments can and should set enforceable targets for clean energy production, install ground heating systems, insulate properties, mandate that new builds have solar power to produce and store enough energy to run homes,railways should be nationalised and fares slashed to make it a no brainer to use them rather than a car, their should be no internal flights of 1 hour or less within the UK, all electrical products should be easily repairable, all plastic containers replaced by returnable glass, and so on.
Not many people really need a car. At any one time only 10% of them are in use. It doesn't make sense to go to the shops in a one tonne vehicle to get a loaf.
There should be a leasing system where you can use a vehicle from a local pool and access it with a credit card or code and in time summon it to your front door driverlessly.
Not sure we could replace all plastic containers with glass or how much emissions are generated by their recycling.
The rest of what you're saying makes sense, but you wont see these practical ideas being demanded by swampy and co at the next protest.
It's not jusr about recycling plastic it's more about the oil used in its manufacture.
These are practical ideas that will help but until we eliminate the profit motive under capitalism we are doomed.
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Re: Climate change.
How much emissions does lab generated meat produce?Mistadobalina wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:59 amEstimate is 14-15% of green house gas emissions come from meat production. Lab grown meat has a lot riding on it, any reduction in demand for meat in the west is going to be offset by growing demand in developing world as it gets richer.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 amYou'll need all that land to grow your vegetables.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:42 am
You think?
Don’t get me wrong it’s not an overnight thing. But there’s soooo many factors that meat production impacts on the environment it feels like it might be something we have to adjust to soon. Or eat lab created meat to replace it.
Aside from the obvious impact of methane, food and water, transport, etc… the land it takes that could be used to replenish the environment would be monumental as well.
Second time I've asked on this thread, as a percentage, how much of an impact is meat eating having?
Well established that vegetables are less land intensive to produce than meat.
Still need that land though. And vegetables are yucky.
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Re: Climate change.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2019-02-19-la ... nvironment
By the sounds of it scurvy will get you way before climate change does, so wouldn't stress it.
By the sounds of it scurvy will get you way before climate change does, so wouldn't stress it.
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Re: Climate change.
Moving to a fairer society where the decision on how many children are produced is not dependent upon high mortality rates, as it is in the developing world, would help.StockholmO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:10 pmAbsolutely nailed it. Uncontrolled population growth is the cause of this.LittleMate wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:10 pm Humans are one of the primary causes of global warming. Over time there have always been resets to the ecosystem. Famine, disease, war & natural disasters. The first three we have had under control like never before and that has been a major reason why there has been a 5 fold increase in the human population in the last 120 years. We are currently controlling (believe it or not) this Covid pandemic. The equivalent pandemic of 100 years ago, the Spanish flu, killed 20-100 million from a possible 1.8 billion. As a consequence the population grows - largely in areas that cannot afford it to grow - and so the planet suffers a burnout that will be very difficult to put right. I don't have the answer but everyone accepting a "lifestyle cut" isn't it.
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Re: Climate change.
Nope. It's going to be near on impossible to get us privileged folk in the developed world to forego our luxuries, never mind expecting those in the rest of the world to halt their progress.
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Re: Climate change.
But how much of that is producing stuff for the west we've sacked off manufacturing in this country and get our tat made abroad, a lot obviously from China made in factories powered by coal fired power stations. So trying to wash our hands of the problem blaming China is just trying to be convenient.
As alluded elsewhere on this thread the issue is people buying sh*t they don't need. Which is also the basis of Capitalism and as such we can't deal with the first issue without dealing with the second...
On a small scale example, how many people buying this years Orient kit already own an Orient shirt of some sort that they could already wear, perhaps a cotton old style one that can survive being washed more than half a dozen times?
But instead we release a new one every year to tempt people into buying more. If we didn't do this however we couldn't afford such a star studded line up, so there is pressure to sell more and more low quality plastic based garments and for fans to buy them to support the club financially.
Yes I know I'm overstating both the need to wear an Orient shirt and their effect on our playing budget, but it is just a simple example.
As alluded elsewhere on this thread the issue is people buying sh*t they don't need. Which is also the basis of Capitalism and as such we can't deal with the first issue without dealing with the second...
On a small scale example, how many people buying this years Orient kit already own an Orient shirt of some sort that they could already wear, perhaps a cotton old style one that can survive being washed more than half a dozen times?
But instead we release a new one every year to tempt people into buying more. If we didn't do this however we couldn't afford such a star studded line up, so there is pressure to sell more and more low quality plastic based garments and for fans to buy them to support the club financially.
Yes I know I'm overstating both the need to wear an Orient shirt and their effect on our playing budget, but it is just a simple example.
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Re: Climate change.
WrongMax B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:49 amThere is more protein and iron in chicken peas than there is in an equivalent portion of beef. FACT.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 amYou'll need all that land to grow your vegetables.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:42 am
You think?
Don’t get me wrong it’s not an overnight thing. But there’s soooo many factors that meat production impacts on the environment it feels like it might be something we have to adjust to soon. Or eat lab created meat to replace it.
Aside from the obvious impact of methane, food and water, transport, etc… the land it takes that could be used to replenish the environment would be monumental as well.
Second time I've asked on this thread, as a percentage, how much of an impact is meat eating having?
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Re: Climate change.
Excellent posto-no wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:15 am What a depressing thread. You can already see people making their minds up about who's 'fault' it is and why them taking any individual action is pointless.
'It's overpopulation' = I don't have any/many kids so it's not me
'I sometimes have to drive a long way' = I don't want to change my car/driving habits
'What are the percentages' = I'm sure I don't do much of whatever it is, so it's not me
and let's not forget the old 'it's China/India/Russia/Brazil opening coal plants/chopping down trees etc etc' chesnut = whatever I do is futile if they do nothing, so I might as well not bother.
It all boils down to 'I want someone to do something, as long as I can carry on doing whatever I like'.
It just gets me down. Many people are smart enough to realise that urgent action is required, but don't realise that THEY are part of the masses that need to do it, and they need to start doing it right now. Here's some things that anyone can do https://www.imperial.ac.uk/stories/climate-action/
But, despite all of this - our kids are utterly buggered. There are just too many people who don't understand, do understand but don't give a sh!t, are struggling with the day-to-day, or are wilfully ignoring the science for this ever to be resolved by individual actions. Politicians of all colours need to sit down together, agree to enforce unpopular policies, and do it. That's about as likely as Lionel Messi signing for the O's.
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Re: Climate change.
What are chicken peas?Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:31 pmWrongMax B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:49 amThere is more protein and iron in chicken peas than there is in an equivalent portion of beef. FACT.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 am
You'll need all that land to grow your vegetables.
Second time I've asked on this thread, as a percentage, how much of an impact is meat eating having?
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Re: Climate change.
I guess if it's glimmers of hope we're after then if the Chinese leadership get on board I'd expect the 1.4bn Chinese people to be a lot more compliant changing their lifestyles than 65m Brits. Something to be said for authoritarian regimes in crisis situations.
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Re: Climate change.
I think he meant chickpeas, which contain nowhere near as much protein or iron per servingPrestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:41 pmWhat are chicken peas?Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:31 pmWrongMax B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:49 am
There is more protein and iron in chicken peas than there is in an equivalent portion of beef. FACT.
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Re: Climate change.
It's when they do a number 1, and not a number 2. But that's not important right now.Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:41 pmWhat are chicken peas?Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:31 pmWrongMax B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:49 am
There is more protein and iron in chicken peas than there is in an equivalent portion of beef. FACT.
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Re: Climate change.
https://cleanair.org/public-health/meat-industry/Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 amYou'll need all that land to grow your vegetables.Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:42 amYou think?
Don’t get me wrong it’s not an overnight thing. But there’s soooo many factors that meat production impacts on the environment it feels like it might be something we have to adjust to soon. Or eat lab created meat to replace it.
Aside from the obvious impact of methane, food and water, transport, etc… the land it takes that could be used to replenish the environment would be monumental as well.
Second time I've asked on this thread, as a percentage, how much of an impact is meat eating having?
Some other useful info https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/why- ... vironment/In total, the UN has estimated that the meat industry generates 18% of all global greenhouse gas emissions.
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Re: Climate change.
Its why it’s embarrassing as well as hypocritical when we moan about Brazil cutting down the Amazon. We have spent the last 200 years cutting our forests down and to such an extent we currently rank a proud 91st on the list of countries by forest area behind those green nut jobs Somalia, Libya, Pakistan and Algeria amongst others.
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Re: Climate change.
British beef and lamb is okay though, so as long as we don't allow intensively farmed US and Australian meat in... Oh.
https://www.nfuonline.com/nfu-online/se ... %2F%20CO2e.
https://www.nfuonline.com/nfu-online/se ... %2F%20CO2e.
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Re: Climate change.
In the last 100 odd years, we have developed a diet that is really out of sync with the previous several thousand.We eat fruit and veg all year round that is seasonal and stuff that we can't or don't grow here.
Grapes from Spain, Nectarines from South Africa, Avocados from Costa Rica. It's mental how much damage a bunch of grapes is doing to the climate.
Dont know the answer aside from lower our expectations of what we are eating but i'm as bad as anyone else for it. I have started making some more conscious decisions if things are imported but not enough really.
Grapes from Spain, Nectarines from South Africa, Avocados from Costa Rica. It's mental how much damage a bunch of grapes is doing to the climate.
Dont know the answer aside from lower our expectations of what we are eating but i'm as bad as anyone else for it. I have started making some more conscious decisions if things are imported but not enough really.
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Re: Climate change.
I think I did mean chick peas. Can't accept i got the iron and protein thing wrong though maybe I was thinking of the extra large ones. Is there anything scientific to back up your claim Snow"""yyyyyMillennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:46 pmI think he meant chickpeas, which contain nowhere near as much protein or iron per serving
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Re: Climate change.
Margaret Thatcher was a visionary on this. Her decision to close coal mines and start the transition to a cleaner form of energy was a master stroke
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Re: Climate change.
Same with Trump. His America First strategy (which Biden appears to be continuing) will mean shorter supply chains and less reliance on overseas manufacturing, all of which will reduce CO2 emissions from international freight.Currywurst and Chips wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:22 pm Margaret Thatcher was a visionary on this. Her decision to close coal mines and start the transition to a cleaner form of energy was a master stroke
Re: Climate change.
Looks like it might be a draw: https://vegfaqs.com/chickpeas-vs-chicken/Max B Gold wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:47 pm I think I did mean chick peas. Can't accept i got the iron and protein thing wrong though maybe I was thinking of the extra large ones. Is there anything scientific to back up your claim Snow"""yyyyy