Terrorism

[BiggsyMalone]

I firstly said “Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.” to which he replied “ ...and have you ever wondered why Jews have been expelled from everywhere, since the middle ages?”.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on what else he could have possibly meant by that.

I would prefer it if he answered the question honestly.

So Comeonyouarabs please explain what was behind your question.

Ok......The original statement that Jews have been thrown out of everywhere, suggested that the countries throwing Jews out, had no reason to throw them out, and I suggested that maybe they did have a reason to throw them out, and it wasnt because they were Jews.
I suggested that Google may have the answer, and to be historically accurate, maybe you should research why they were thrown out, before putting this misleading statement on this board.
To say perhaps a reason why they had been thrown out, even though it is factual, is nowdays considered anti-semitic, and you have to be careful how you phrase things, even historically factual things, so i left it to bigsy, to do his own research, because anything i said would immediately be deemed anti-semitic

Absolute rubbish.

[Max B Gold]

That's the things with these historic conflicts and grievances. Both sides are able to always go back a bit further in time and point out something that the other did that still makes them feel sad. It achieves nothing. Not that there is ever going to be an easy solution to any of this of course, especially with the Iranian regime so clearly stirring the sh*t in the background.

Looking at the roots of historical conflicts does achieve something. In the context of a reconciliation process both sides need to understand and accept the concerns they have in order to reach agreement on how to move forward toward building a society where both can coexist peacefully. So stop talking rubbish. I've got enough on my hands in this thread dealing with Comeonyouarabs and Biggsy Morone

You agree looking at historical conflicts does achieve something, therefore you have to go back further to see how the Jews have been treated for 1000+ years and then you’ll see why it’s important to them to have ‘their land’. You can then move forward with creating a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, with people like Netanyahu and Hamas in charge, there won’t be a solution.

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

[roffeys money]

Bet the parents of that little girl kid are proper relishing the publicity tonight

They should be as angry at Hamas for using residential areas to attack Israel and then hide.

Hamas was founded in 1987; Israel began expelling Palestinians by force in 1948.

You omit the background: in 1947 the UN voted to partition Palestine, which was accepted by the Jews but rejected by the Arabs followed by an invasion by the armies of 4 Arab states In the war that followed 700,000 Palestinians were displaced (both fled and were expelled). 900,000 Jews were displaced (fled/were expelled) from Arab countries, 260,000 immediately and 640,000 subsequently. Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan this would not have happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab ... sraeli_War

[Max B Gold]

They should be as angry at Hamas for using residential areas to attack Israel and then hide.

Hamas was founded in 1987; Israel began expelling Palestinians by force in 1948.

You omit the background: in 1947 the UN voted to partition Palestine, which was accepted by the Jews but rejected by the Arabs followed by an invasion by the armies of 4 Arab states In the war that followed 700,000 Palestinians were displaced (both fled and were expelled). 900,000 Jews were displaced (fled/were expelled) from Arab countries, 260,000 immediately and 640,000 subsequently. Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan this would not have happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab ... sraeli_War

Why would Arabs accept the partition of their land imposed by a third party?

[roffeys money]

Looking at the roots of historical conflicts does achieve something. In the context of a reconciliation process both sides need to understand and accept the concerns they have in order to reach agreement on how to move forward toward building a society where both can coexist peacefully. So stop talking rubbish. I've got enough on my hands in this thread dealing with Comeonyouarabs and Biggsy Morone

You agree looking at historical conflicts does achieve something, therefore you have to go back further to see how the Jews have been treated for 1000+ years and then you’ll see why it’s important to them to have ‘their land’. You can then move forward with creating a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, with people like Netanyahu and Hamas in charge, there won’t be a solution.

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

Many Native Americans think it was stolen.

[BiggsyMalone]

Looking at the roots of historical conflicts does achieve something. In the context of a reconciliation process both sides need to understand and accept the concerns they have in order to reach agreement on how to move forward toward building a society where both can coexist peacefully. So stop talking rubbish. I've got enough on my hands in this thread dealing with Comeonyouarabs and Biggsy Morone

You agree looking at historical conflicts does achieve something, therefore you have to go back further to see how the Jews have been treated for 1000+ years and then you’ll see why it’s important to them to have ‘their land’. You can then move forward with creating a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, with people like Netanyahu and Hamas in charge, there won’t be a solution.

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

That’s why I put it in inverted commas. There is a historical claim to that land on religious grounds. They want a land so the persecution of their people doesn’t happen again. So they’re not chased away and slaughtered, again. Jews were settled in Grenada and then were slaughtered for being Jewish, sound familiar?

The modern understanding of Zionism is different to what the original definition is. Ethnic cleansing is a very strong phrase to use and I don’t think it applies but that’s a difference of opinion.

North America is different, much like the British empire in general. European colonisers didn’t have a historical claim to that land, they took it, murdered the native Americans and to this day persecute them. From what I’ve read and heard, the majority of Palestinians live happily there but Gaza and the West Bank are serious issues. Gaza is a humanitarian crisis and Israel shouldn’t be treating the people there like they do. The West Bank has a history involving Jordan too, which makes it more difficult to talk about.

This whole thing is just a cycle of retaliation because Britain decided to play God

[roffeys money]

Hamas was founded in 1987; Israel began expelling Palestinians by force in 1948.

You omit the background: in 1947 the UN voted to partition Palestine, which was accepted by the Jews but rejected by the Arabs followed by an invasion by the armies of 4 Arab states In the war that followed 700,000 Palestinians were displaced (both fled and were expelled). 900,000 Jews were displaced (fled/were expelled) from Arab countries, 260,000 immediately and 640,000 subsequently. Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan this would not have happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab ... sraeli_War

Why would Arabs accept the partition of their land imposed by a third party?

It was not their land.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_di ... n_of_Judea

[Max B Gold]

You omit the background: in 1947 the UN voted to partition Palestine, which was accepted by the Jews but rejected by the Arabs followed by an invasion by the armies of 4 Arab states In the war that followed 700,000 Palestinians were displaced (both fled and were expelled). 900,000 Jews were displaced (fled/were expelled) from Arab countries, 260,000 immediately and 640,000 subsequently. Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan this would not have happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab ... sraeli_War

Why would Arabs accept the partition of their land imposed by a third party?

It was not their land.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_di ... n_of_Judea

The were the ones who were living there at the time. No other party had a legal claim on it.

[roffeys money]

That is squatting. You can't obtain good title to something that was stolen.

[Max B Gold]

You agree looking at historical conflicts does achieve something, therefore you have to go back further to see how the Jews have been treated for 1000+ years and then you’ll see why it’s important to them to have ‘their land’. You can then move forward with creating a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, with people like Netanyahu and Hamas in charge, there won’t be a solution.

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

That’s why I put it in inverted commas. There is a historical claim to that land on religious grounds. They want a land so the persecution of their people doesn’t happen again. So they’re not chased away and slaughtered, again. Jews were settled in Grenada and then were slaughtered for being Jewish, sound familiar?

I know that's why you put it in parenthesis, I even did acknowledge that in my reply. I get all the religious justification for taking land that belongs to others. It's not an excuse.

The Jews in Grenada were massacred because of an act of betrayal by their leader not specifically because they were Jews. The christian Mozarabs were treated in a similar way in Al-Andalus and pushed out of Grenada around the same time.

The modern understanding of Zionism is different to what the original definition is. Ethnic cleansing is a very strong phrase to use and I don’t think it applies but that’s a difference of opinion.

I agree that the definition of Zionism has expanded to mean a form of Ultra Nationalism bordering on being fascist.

Yes ethnic cleansing is a strong accusation. But how else would you explain the expulsion of Palestinians from their lands, acts of excessive violence against them, the indiscriminate killing of civilians, the imprisoning of Palestinians in open prisons like Gaza?

North America is different, much like the British empire in general. European colonisers didn’t have a historical claim to that land, they took it, murdered the native Americans and to this day persecute them. From what I’ve read and heard, the majority of Palestinians live happily there but Gaza and the West Bank are serious issues. Gaza is a humanitarian crisis and Israel shouldn’t be treating the people there like they do. The West Bank has a history involving Jordan too, which makes it more difficult to talk about.


This whole thing is just a cycle of retaliation because Britain decided to play God

There is no God. Britain was playing at colonialism just as Israel is today. Both displayed unbelievable brutality in their conquest.

[BiggsyMalone]

You’re going to have to post that again, formatted easier to read

[roffeys money]

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

That’s why I put it in inverted commas. There is a historical claim to that land on religious grounds. They want a land so the persecution of their people doesn’t happen again. So they’re not chased away and slaughtered, again. Jews were settled in Grenada and then were slaughtered for being Jewish, sound familiar?

I know that's why you put it in parenthesis, I even did acknowledge that in my reply. I get all the religious justification for taking land that belongs to others. It's not an excuse.

The Jews in Grenada were massacred because of an act of betrayal by their leader not specifically because they were Jews. The christian Mozarabs were treated in a similar way in Al-Andalus and pushed out of Grenada around the same time.

The modern understanding of Zionism is different to what the original definition is. Ethnic cleansing is a very strong phrase to use and I don’t think it applies but that’s a difference of opinion.

I agree that the definition of Zionism has expanded to mean a form of Ultra Nationalism bordering on being fascist.

Yes ethnic cleansing is a strong accusation. But how else would you explain the expulsion of Palestinians from their lands, acts of excessive violence against them, the indiscriminate killing of civilians, the imprisoning of Palestinians in open prisons like Gaza?

North America is different, much like the British empire in general. European colonisers didn’t have a historical claim to that land, they took it, murdered the native Americans and to this day persecute them. From what I’ve read and heard, the majority of Palestinians live happily there but Gaza and the West Bank are serious issues. Gaza is a humanitarian crisis and Israel shouldn’t be treating the people there like they do. The West Bank has a history involving Jordan too, which makes it more difficult to talk about.


This whole thing is just a cycle of retaliation because Britain decided to play God

There is no God. Britain was playing at colonialism just as Israel is today. Both displayed unbelievable brutality in their conquest.

The desire to return to the biblical land of Israel was a main theme of Judaism throughout the c.1900 years of the second exile. They didn't colonise the land, they returned to what was theirs.

[Max B Gold]

That’s why I put it in inverted commas. There is a historical claim to that land on religious grounds. They want a land so the persecution of their people doesn’t happen again. So they’re not chased away and slaughtered, again. Jews were settled in Grenada and then were slaughtered for being Jewish, sound familiar?

I know that's why you put it in parenthesis, I even did acknowledge that in my reply. I get all the religious justification for taking land that belongs to others. It's not an excuse.

The Jews in Grenada were massacred because of an act of betrayal by their leader not specifically because they were Jews. The christian Mozarabs were treated in a similar way in Al-Andalus and pushed out of Grenada around the same time.

The modern understanding of Zionism is different to what the original definition is. Ethnic cleansing is a very strong phrase to use and I don’t think it applies but that’s a difference of opinion.

I agree that the definition of Zionism has expanded to mean a form of Ultra Nationalism bordering on being fascist.

Yes ethnic cleansing is a strong accusation. But how else would you explain the expulsion of Palestinians from their lands, acts of excessive violence against them, the indiscriminate killing of civilians, the imprisoning of Palestinians in open prisons like Gaza?

North America is different, much like the British empire in general. European colonisers didn’t have a historical claim to that land, they took it, murdered the native Americans and to this day persecute them. From what I’ve read and heard, the majority of Palestinians live happily there but Gaza and the West Bank are serious issues. Gaza is a humanitarian crisis and Israel shouldn’t be treating the people there like they do. The West Bank has a history involving Jordan too, which makes it more difficult to talk about.


This whole thing is just a cycle of retaliation because Britain decided to play God

There is no God. Britain was playing at colonialism just as Israel is today. Both displayed unbelievable brutality in their conquest.

The desire to return to the biblical land of Israel was a main theme of Judaism throughout the c.1900 years of the second exile. They didn't colonise the land, they returned to what was theirs.

It isn't theirs.

[Mistadobalina]

I firstly said “Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.” to which he replied “ ...and have you ever wondered why Jews have been expelled from everywhere, since the middle ages?”.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on what else he could have possibly meant by that.

I would prefer it if he answered the question honestly.

So Comeonyouarabs please explain what was behind your question.

Ok......The original statement that Jews have been thrown out of everywhere, suggested that the countries throwing Jews out, had no reason to throw them out, and I suggested that maybe they did have a reason to throw them out, and it wasnt because they were Jews.
I suggested that Google may have the answer, and to be historically accurate, maybe you should research why they were thrown out, before putting this misleading statement on this board.
To say perhaps a reason why they had been thrown out, even though it is factual, is nowdays considered anti-semitic, and you have to be careful how you phrase things, even historically factual things, so i left it to bigsy, to do his own research, because anything i said would immediately be deemed anti-semitic

Most racism these days isn't explicit, it is through implication and innuendo. Normally laden with caveats like 'perhaps' or 'Im just saying' or 'i was only suggesting'.

If you swapped Jewish for black and the 'you can't say anything about them without being called anti-Semitic' line with racist, you'd realise you've absolutely emabrrassed yourself. Surprised your original comment didn't get you banned. Less surprised you've decided to dig yourself into a deeper hole. It's bollox like you've posted that allows the hard expansionist part of the Israeli state to conflate all criticism of Israel with antisemitism.

[Long slender neck]

I firstly said “Jews have been expelled by force from everywhere they’ve lived since the middle ages.” to which he replied “ ...and have you ever wondered why Jews have been expelled from everywhere, since the middle ages?”.

I’d like to hear your thoughts on what else he could have possibly meant by that.

I would prefer it if he answered the question honestly.

So Comeonyouarabs please explain what was behind your question.

Ok......The original statement that Jews have been thrown out of everywhere, suggested that the countries throwing Jews out, had no reason to throw them out, and I suggested that maybe they did have a reason to throw them out, and it wasnt because they were Jews.
I suggested that Google may have the answer, and to be historically accurate, maybe you should research why they were thrown out, before putting this misleading statement on this board.
To say perhaps a reason why they had been thrown out, even though it is factual, is nowdays considered anti-semitic, and you have to be careful how you phrase things, even historically factual things, so i left it to bigsy, to do his own research, because anything i said would immediately be deemed anti-semitic

So what was the reason for throwing out all Jews if not because they were Jewish?

[tuffers#1]

They should be as angry at Hamas for using residential areas to attack Israel and then hide.

Hamas was voted for by palestinians .

Should the Tory Party or Labour Party have offices in
Residential areas if they send troops to murder innocent people ?

Stop with the " he said she said " bulls*t idiotic arguments !

It’s not bullshit idiotic. The people firing the rockets are doing so from residential areas, nothing to do with having offices there. They’re risking the lives of their people.

Then the same can be said of Israel !

[Currywurst and Chips]

Next time COYOS, remember to use the code word Zionist

We'll all know what you mean but you won't get banned for it and can claim innocence.

[George M]

Even if the Jews did have claim to the land they were given , they certainly don’t have claim to the land that they are forcibly taking from the Palestinians

[tuffers#1]

You agree looking at historical conflicts does achieve something, therefore you have to go back further to see how the Jews have been treated for 1000+ years and then you’ll see why it’s important to them to have ‘their land’. You can then move forward with creating a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, with people like Netanyahu and Hamas in charge, there won’t be a solution.

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

Many Native Americans think it was stolen.

A bit like the 6 counties stolen form Ireland then

[Max B Gold]

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

Many Native Americans think it was stolen.

A bit like the 6 counties stolen form Ireland then

No need to think it. It's a fact.

[tuffers#1]

You omit the background: in 1947 the UN voted to partition Palestine, which was accepted by the Jews but rejected by the Arabs followed by an invasion by the armies of 4 Arab states In the war that followed 700,000 Palestinians were displaced (both fled and were expelled). 900,000 Jews were displaced (fled/were expelled) from Arab countries, 260,000 immediately and 640,000 subsequently. Had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan this would not have happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab ... sraeli_War

Why would Arabs accept the partition of their land imposed by a third party?

It was not their land.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_di ... n_of_Judea

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea


So Israel got a better land mass than historically they had before .
as shown by your example of the wiki link
Being that Judah ( Judea is in fact the south west of Israel)

Who was displaced from the rest of what is modern day Israel ?
It would be interesting to know .

[tuffers#1]

Many Native Americans think it was stolen.

A bit like the 6 counties stolen form Ireland then

No need to think it. It's a fact.

I know Max , thats why i brought it up.

[Max B Gold]

A bit like the 6 counties stolen form Ireland then

No need to think it. It's a fact.

I know Max , thats why i brought it up.

Ya wee rascal.

[Ralphs Coate]

What's the fight about? Who started it? And is it a fair fight?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41765892
We had a bit to do with it.

[BiggsyMalone]

There is a big difference between having "their land" and having a home land. In the same way that the land owned by Jews in Grenada in 1066 is not now "their land". Israel is not their land but it is viewed that way for religious reasons and not by all Jews, many are not Zionists. Israel is a colonising state attempting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from "their" land.

If Israel is truly their land, Is North America the land of the native Americans who should be pushing back the colonial settlers and retaking what is rightfully theirs?

I know that's why you put it in parenthesis, I even did acknowledge that in my reply. I get all the religious justification for taking land that belongs to others. It's not an excuse.

The Jews in Grenada were massacred because of an act of betrayal by their leader not specifically because they were Jews. The christian Mozarabs were treated in a similar way in Al-Andalus and pushed out of Grenada around the same time.

I agree that the definition of Zionism has expanded to mean a form of Ultra Nationalism bordering on being fascist.

Yes ethnic cleansing is a strong accusation. But how else would you explain the expulsion of Palestinians from their lands, acts of excessive violence against them, the indiscriminate killing of civilians, the imprisoning of Palestinians in open prisons like Gaza?

There is no God. Britain was playing at colonialism just as Israel is today. Both displayed unbelievable brutality in their conquest.

Jews were there first, it became Palestine after Hadrian changed the name and even Jeruselum. They have a historical claim to that land to set up a state for protection of their people. The way they were finally able to settle there and the ultra nationalist politcal ideology that is causing suffering and misery now is cleary wrong and should be criticised.

That is why I think people need to be careful with the anti-Zionism isn’t anti-semitism line. It is interpreted as being against what the original definition is.

A recent example is the Serbs ethnically cleansing Bosnian Muslims and the genocide there. To me, this isn’t the same. A few of areas in Israel/Palestine are being subjected to inhumane practices but there are a lot of Palestinians living there that aren’t being persecuted (going by what I’ve read and heard) and live happily and peacefully. If it was ethnic cleansing, there would be next to no Palestinians living there and there wouldn’t be an Oslo 2 accord. Don’t get me wrong, what the Israeli government continue to do to Gaza is awful and the police/military force is far too excessive.

Modern warfare is being used to settle an argument from thousands of years ago revolving around the perception of God and a book.