Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
Higher deaths in several countries.
Belgian, Italy, Bosnia, North Macedonia, lichtenstein, San Marino and Peru for starters.
Around our level Spain, France, USA and many others.
The issue you have is how these are recorded. For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
For completeness from the ONS site only 1979 people had died of covid without having underlying conditions of which 377 were under 60 as at mid December.
Are you comparing based on government figures or all deaths with covid on the death certificate? As the latter figure is quite a lot bigger.
Whilst it's true that a lot of the people passing away from covid that would have also done so otherwise, total excess deaths are up substantially and during the first wave, I think it was us and Spain that had the highest figure.
It's definitely true that some countries are fudging their covid figures. Spain and America come to mind. But excess deaths are pretty absolute, and we have done dreadfully on that front.
Last edited by Mistadobalina on Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am
If you have a positive covid test, hang on in there for more than 28 days before your lungs finally pack up, are you excluded from the death toll?
And the answer, of course, is yes, you will be excluded from being reported as a "covid related death".
Sad, how some on here still want to diminish the effects of the pandemic and apologise for our governments clear failings.
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Thor would know a website where we could find these numbers. It'll be a huge number of course.
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am
If you have a positive covid test, hang on in there for more than 28 days before your lungs finally pack up, are you excluded from the death toll?
Dont know but in hospital I think they test people every week.
Still's Carenae wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:32 am
For example in Germany you now have to die from Covid, this is not the case in the UK, where you have only to be tested positive for covid in the previous 28 days. If you are killed in an accident and have had covid in the previous 28 days, you are a covid death.
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am
If you have a positive covid test, hang on in there for more than 28 days before your lungs finally pack up, are you excluded from the death toll?
Dont know but in hospital I think they test people every week.
They do. Somebody I know was in there in mid-December for just over a week, and they were tested twice. they also needed a negative test before they were transferred to their ward.
How many people do you think have had a positive covid test, spend a week or two feeling unwell, then die in a freak bungee jumping accident in the 2 weeks after that?
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Thats just not likely is it? If you're in hospital, they're testing you regularly.
I dont know how many are being infected in hospitals. But anecdotally, it has happened to a few people i know.
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Thats just not likely is it? If you're in hospital, they're testing you regularly.
I dont know how many are being infected in hospitals. But anecdotally, it has happened to a few people i know.
So if you test positive for Covid, then go into hospital 2 days later with breathing difficulties, then continue to deteriorate and end up on a respirator, do you think they keep on testing you to make sure it's still Covid you're dying from? That's bonkers.
It's not about death stats or which country has the most deaths per head or which method of counting deaths is most accurate or whether people are tested in hospital.
None of it matters, they just want a new way to say "Government bad".
Its not just car crashes etc. Was it about 10000 people die a week of all sorts of causes? (cba to look it up)
Some of those are going to get covid in hospital, so they go down as 'died with covid'.
This does not mean i think Boris is doing a brilliant job.
Sure, there will be a negligible amount.
But there will be more people testing positive, spending 4 weeks battling the disease before finally succumbing to it and they're not included.
Thats just not likely is it? If you're in hospital, they're testing you regularly.
I dont know how many are being infected in hospitals. But anecdotally, it has happened to a few people i know.
1000s of people get covid after going into hospital for something else, which is pretty horrific.
The 28 day "arguments" are largely moot as that data is used primarily for the Govt daily reporting and to keep the BBC happy. There is reporting by "covid mentioned on the death certificate", which it is going to be if you are in hospital for 3 months with covid and die from it, regardless of whether you're tested over that period. The "28 day" and "death certificate" totals are roughly the same anyway (latter slightly higher).
Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:03 pm
It's not about death stats or which country has the most deaths per head or which method of counting deaths is most accurate or whether people are tested in hospital.
None of it matters, they just want a new way to say "Government bad".
Yeah, we are really struggling to find things that might make the government look bad atm.
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Oiram wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Oiram wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Agreed. It's time to talk us up. As I've pointed out above; out of 152 countries, and in terms of absolute Covid deaths, the UK has scored the fifth highest points.
Oiram wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:15 pm
Some people just like to talk the Country down come what may. Even when the unemployment figures and economy strong before Covid , the lefties could not say anything in favour.
Agreed. It's time to talk us up. As I've pointed out above; out of 152 countries, and in terms of absolute Covid deaths, the UK has scored the fifth highest points.
It is difficult to identify what is ‘genuine anti Government criticism with valid constructive argument against pure ‘anti-Tory, pro Remain revenge’.
