The real problem here Admin is that you perhaps think you are the only person to have got involved in this. Believe me you are not. The name fxxx the poor I find hugely offensive. Hugely offensive. Not too mention totally wrong on so many levels.
There was an organisation involved in setting up food banks, their corporate mantra was to create as many food banks as possible. A goal I felt was wrong.
They had a change at the top and the new goal was to eradicate the need for food banks. Correct.
Their goal today, I have no idea.
Food banks exist, there should not be a need at all in our country and that they exist is a national disgrace. But for an organisation having a goal of expansion, like Starbucks opening coffee shops, is wrong. For sure open them where a need is identified but put efforts into eradicating the need.
As for an approval process. Totally agree, dehumanising is an appropriate word. The other side of the coin was that in the early days of food banks it was often sufficient for people to turn up and get help. A process that was abused. I know it was abused. I’ve seen it get abused. At the expense of those in genuine need. That ain’t right. Processes developed to prevent abuse. You tell me how these things should be managed! I don’t know.
When you dig deeper and look at supermarkets getting involved, even the Government getting involved I really start to struggle with whether supermarkets are genuinely concerned or just seeking an opportunity for self promotion. The ooh look at us, ain’t we good. But better they contribute, even for selfish reasons, than not contribute at all.
It’s a complex issue. One that should not exist, but it does. And one that will continue until the need has been eradicated. Eradication is the goal.
Ok - so what's the name of this organisation? Perhaps the need to create as many foodbanks as possible is in response to the ever growing need for them? Perhaps they felt driven enough to care for their fellow man and fill the gap. And eradication of the need for foodbanks isn't going to come from a private organisation - it comes from the very people you voted to run this country.
Tell me how these foodbanks were abused? Because the foodbanks I worked with had vetting processes to ensure that those with the most need got what they required as a priority. Many applicants I dealt with were working, trying to feed their families and pay rent / bills etc. From my experience of working with local authority housing for the last 30 years, those in greatest need are rarely workshy feckless layabouts.
The issue isn't that complex. In 2020, it is not too much to expect the government of the 5th(?) largest economy to provide a welfare system that ensures it's people, working or otherwise, are fed and sheltered.
All their stuff is/was on the web. As is the involvement of supermarkets and the Government. I have absolutely no interest in digging it all out again.
I think you are missing the point. I am not against the creation of food banks where there is a need, far from it. I am certainly in admiration for all those people who do their bit. Well done to them all.
But the emphasis needs to be the eradication of need. The creation of food banks to my way of thinking is an example of failure of the system, here I am talking about Government as well. If the system was better there would be no food banks needed. No food banks, that is success. 2000 food banks is not.
The focus is on improving the lives of people by eradicating the need. The growth in food banks is an indication of failure and I for one don’t rejoice in the growing numbers but accept it is a need in the country today.
Food banks are a symptom, the cause needs to be addressed. It is not being addressed and hasn’t been for the past 20 years.
Ask yourself this. If there was no risk of abuse, why have a voucher system, why assess need. Just let people go to a food bank and take what they want. We all live in the real world, we all know there exists people who will abuse whatever system is in place.
Arguments you rely on tend to be much more useful, if you can actually, y'know rely on them. Pretty poor form to trot out stuff if you can't substantiate it.
Regardless, who is best placed to eradicate need? Your argument with me a year ago was that we couldn't just blame governments and need to look to ourselves to do more. Please expand on this - if this is still your position?
Your last paragraph is just more deflection - of course there are possibilities for abuse. However, my experience is that in reality, instances of this are almost non-existent.
This is the problem. I tried hard to avoid this becoming personal. But in response to a genuine question from PoliticO, whom I see as one of the few boarders willing to debate, I reluctantly answered. In the full knowledge that some would jump on it and use it as an opportunity to have a dig. QED.
The only reason it's been jumped on is that the experience you described, wasn't racism.
Do you ever wonder why all your "debates" end up with you being called out for idiocy? I'd suggest there's a common denominator somewhere.....
Depends on how you view racism. I have previously said I don’t see racism in terms of Black and white. Much wider than that. In the fullest meaning of the word it was. But I’ve really tried not to bring this down to a single personal and insignificant experience which is totally irrelevant.
I put forward structured arguments. My comments regarding Food banks are based on fact. I’m willing to guess my personal experience in this area is greater than most. But feel free to resort to insults.
Your personal experience isn't irrelevant. You've judged it as racism when it clearly wasn't. Ergo it's reasonable to question your judgement and views on racism generally. You've been asked before but can you define what "white privilege" is?
Max B Gold wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:32 pm
Just out of very little interest can i ask what the cause is?
You seem mire focused on stemming abuse of the food bank operations than you are in supporting them. Its the deserving poor versus undeserving fly men who steal from the poor. The real answer is to deal with the "causes" and ignore the deflection.
Max, my cause to use your terminology is to have a society where they are not necessary. That is the focus. I would add that you are completely wrong about my support.
PoliticOs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:37 pm
Food bank use (Source: Trussell Trust) for 3 day emergency food use in 2010 was 61,000. In 2019/2020 it was 1.9million.
I just put this through the Prez Biz response generator, and it gave me the following optional responses:
"Ah yes, but statistics can be used to prove anything. I much prefer to do my own research and form my own conclusions of the bigger picture."
"But that's because the Tories have had to clean up the mess left behind by the last Labour government."
"No wonder we have such an obesity crisis, with so many poor people getting all that free food."
I wasn't quite sure which one to pick so just choose your own.
Heh @ Dunners. However, here's some genuine Maffy takes on Foodbank Use:
"So for everybody on this forum I say. Look at yourself before the Government. Are you happy stuffing your face and drinking well, maybe adding to the overweight crisis, whilst being aware of those starving. Being righteous is all very well and good when looking at what others are or should be doing but perhaps looking closer to home for a few seconds for all of us would be good."
"Read my post. Whilst we suffer an obiesity crisis, other struggle to eat. That is obscene. And for what it’s worth it’s not just the rich who are fat. And the Government don’t force feed people. Like I said, we all have a part to play, not just leaving it to the Government. It’s for us to examine our own actions, not the Governments, and decide whether we are any better. Or simply playing politics. I know what I do. Do you? A rhetorical question.
This is the problem. I tried hard to avoid this becoming personal. But in response to a genuine question from PoliticO, whom I see as one of the few boarders willing to debate, I reluctantly answered. In the full knowledge that some would jump on it and use it as an opportunity to have a dig. QED.
" You have absolutely no f*cking idea what I do, nor for how long. If you dare call me uncharitable again I’ll invite you to a face to face if you have the balls and we can discuss it man to man. That comment is outrageous and wrong so in the nicest sense, go f*** yourself. I do plenty but just don’t go around boasting about it, just quietly and unselfishly get on with it. An apology is needed but of course you won’t ".
-----========---------
You dont try to hard in avoiding making things personal .
I have absolutely no idea what brought about this post is about or to whom it is intended.
Its about you
It was said by you
It shows you, as you are seen
by others
Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:48 pm
Wow. There are a lot of people here that have admitted they have never experienced racism but at the same time seen to think it’s everywhere. How would you know if you have never experienced it?
Admin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:48 pm
Heh @ Dunners. However, here's some genuine Maffy takes on Foodbank Use:
"So for everybody on this forum I say. Look at yourself before the Government. Are you happy stuffing your face and drinking well, maybe adding to the overweight crisis, whilst being aware of those starving. Being righteous is all very well and good when looking at what others are or should be doing but perhaps looking closer to home for a few seconds for all of us would be good."
"Read my post. Whilst we suffer an obiesity crisis, other struggle to eat. That is obscene. And for what it’s worth it’s not just the rich who are fat. And the Government don’t force feed people. Like I said, we all have a part to play, not just leaving it to the Government. It’s for us to examine our own actions, not the Governments, and decide whether we are any better. Or simply playing politics. I know what I do. Do you? A rhetorical question.
Let’s take a step backwards here. We compare the haves with the have nots. The rich with the poor, the people owning empty properties with the homeless. The extremities in our society. Yet looking at the obesity crisis and the need for food banks is off limits. Fair enough, sensitive, let’s leave that one alone before my username gets changed again.
And the term was we all have a part to play not JUST leaving it to the Government. That is inclusive,
I actually have just lost the will to live reading your drivel. Fair play to actually annoying me enough to engage with you in the first place but like always, you seem to believe you win an argument by the quantity of words rather than quality.
As I said to you a year ago, you've actually managed to conflate in-work poverty, hunger and obesity. It's how you ended up with the FTP&F username. And you still don't understand why.
And on that note, I'm out. Feel free to declare yourself the winner.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:12 pm
But kids arent hungry because others are fat.
It is. Because hungry kids want to be fat kids which is why they rush down to the foodbank with their £5,000 trainers on and go grab all the mars bars.
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:27 pm
He's single handedly taken on the Left of the MB, plus Dunnem, and come out victorious.
A true Boardin' masterclass.
He literally smashed us. We came out of it naturally the worst. Beaten and bloody I was sick down my shirt. We were no match for his untamed wit. But some of the lads said they'd be back next week.
Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:48 pm
Wow. There are a lot of people here that have admitted they have never experienced racism but at the same time seen to think it’s everywhere. How would you know if you have never experienced it?
Because I dish it out.
Surely it's because some of your best friends are black?
Admin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:18 pm
I actually have just lost the will to live reading your drivel. Fair play to actually annoying me enough to engage with you in the first place but like always, you seem to believe you win an argument by the quantity of words rather than quality.
As I said to you a year ago, you've actually managed to conflate in-work poverty, hunger and obesity. It's how you ended up with the FTP&F username. And you still don't understand why.
And on that note, I'm out. Feel free to declare yourself the winner.
Let this be a lesson to you all - if you get into a wrestle with a pig, you get dirty, and the pig enjoys himself.
Beradogs wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:48 pm
Wow. There are a lot of people here that have admitted they have never experienced racism but at the same time seen to think it’s everywhere. How would you know if you have never experienced it?
Because I dish it out.
Surely it's because some of your best friends are black?
Admin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:18 pm
I actually have just lost the will to live reading your drivel. Fair play to actually annoying me enough to engage with you in the first place but like always, you seem to believe you win an argument by the quantity of words rather than quality.
As I said to you a year ago, you've actually managed to conflate in-work poverty, hunger and obesity. It's how you ended up with the FTP&F username. And you still don't understand why.
And on that note, I'm out. Feel free to declare yourself the winner.
Let this be a lesson to you all - if you get into a wrestle with a pig, you get dirty, and the pig enjoys himself.
That is a good life lesson. Get in, get dirty or quit.
