Possibly. But the message is still crystal clear and why should he restrict the life ban to just one unacceptable action. Any racist act should get the same punishment. What's the problem with that?
Its not crystal clear because they've dressed it up in vague language. I'm not saying restrict bans to people who boo the knee though am I? They should just make it clear what the rules are for the knee(and perhaps other similar events) in addition to existing rules.
Now I know you're just being contrary for the sake of it. You're not this dumb. It is crystal clear that Nigel is stating he won't accept racist actions - any actions - including booing during "taking the knee" and any other unrelated action. Now stop trolling.
If the person you're talking to doesnt agree with you, just call them dumb!
You can look at the statement and read between the lines, but shouldnt have to.
EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:42 pm
If someone boos because they don’t want politics involved in sport that is not the actions of a bigot.
I personally wouldn’t boo, but thank goodness we live in a country where we have freedom of speech (within the law), and I would always defend that right.
It’s a slippery slope otherwise, what next, not wear a ‘taking the knee’ badge maybe upon entering the stadium becomes the actions of a bigot? Not joining a march perhaps?
One either believes in free speech (within the law) or one doesn’t, and that has to work regardless of whether one agrees with what is being said or not.
But, but people also have the right to freedom of expression which in this case takes the form of kneeling to show solidarity for oppressed black people.
You are advocating the right of people to boo which is contradictory and is a worthless argument for supporting racists.
In addition, at Orient the Chairman has specifically asked fans not to boo or express racist views. His club, his stadium and his rules. Why can't you just accept this?
It’s NOT expressing racist views though is it. Why is Julie Hartley Brewer on this morning defending millwall fans. She can’t and would not do that if they had been racist. Why does Sajid Javid say of BLM. “They are not a force for good”. Why did millwall fans booing get 30,000 likes on Mail online and comments were only open for an hour. You will say all these people are right wing and they are but you can’t say they are racist. It’s just the brexit and culture war debate being played over again. Left vs right which means it’s political and political statements have no place on a football field.
Anyone who's conflating this gesture with support for a really specific political group are either thick as mince or being completely disingenuous.
It’s NOT expressing racist views though is it. Why is Julie Hartley Brewer on this morning defending millwall fans. She can’t and would not do that if they had been racist. Why does Sajid Javid say of BLM. “They are not a force for good”. Why did millwall fans booing get 30,000 likes on Mail online and comments were only open for an hour. You will say all these people are right wing and they are but you can’t say they are racist. It’s just the brexit and culture war debate being played over again. Left vs right which means it’s political and political statements have no place on a football field.
Did you read this back before you pressed Submit? If so, then I think you should just pull the covers back over your head and stay there.
This isn't about Left vs Right - that's just the pigeon-holing of views that the media and hard of thinking like to project. It makes it easier for them to disparage contrary opinions. This is about racism, pure and simple. Either you're a racist or you aren't.
Same as Brexit eh mate. It’s boring. Nobody listens to a word people like you have to say anymore.
Hahahaha - who mentioned Brexit? Oh you did, trying to conflate Anti-Racism with being Anti-Brexit. Nice try but stick to the topic. So are you a big fat racist then?
Its not crystal clear because they've dressed it up in vague language. I'm not saying restrict bans to people who boo the knee though am I? They should just make it clear what the rules are for the knee(and perhaps other similar events) in addition to existing rules.
Now I know you're just being contrary for the sake of it. You're not this dumb. It is crystal clear that Nigel is stating he won't accept racist actions - any actions - including booing during "taking the knee" and any other unrelated action. Now stop trolling.
If the person you're talking to doesnt agree with you, just call them dumb!
You can look at the statement and read between the lines, but shouldnt have to.
Dumb is as dumb does. The choice is yours. The statement is crystal clear.
You think its clear, I think it could be clearer still. You got your knickers in a twist because you thought this would somehow exclude other racist actions.
EastDerehamO wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:42 pm
If someone boos because they don’t want politics involved in sport that is not the actions of a bigot.
I personally wouldn’t boo, but thank goodness we live in a country where we have freedom of speech (within the law), and I would always defend that right.
It’s a slippery slope otherwise, what next, not wear a ‘taking the knee’ badge maybe upon entering the stadium becomes the actions of a bigot? Not joining a march perhaps?
One either believes in free speech (within the law) or one doesn’t, and that has to work regardless of whether one agrees with what is being said or not.
Debates surrounding racism are now all but impossible. Rather than reducing racism it just pushes it underground. This is not healthy.
This is just b/s. I can't recall a time in my life when racists were more embolded to spew their filth. It's become less subtle and more mainstream rather than being pushed underground.
Don’t disagree Max. The issue Max as I see it is not the racists themselves, they will always be vocal as you rightly say, but the ability of those of us that despise racism being able to debate. Debate can be a form of education, bring these things out into the open. Raise awareness. Bring about change. Reduce racism over time. Debate is healthy. Taking the knee is about raising awareness.
It’s the open debate that is being stifled. I can guarantee that people wanting to talk honestly about racism, even those let’s say who don’t agree with taking the knee, will immediately be jumped upon as being racist, even when that is not the case So it’s easier to keep quiet.
I can't understand why taking a knee would animate you so much that you'd boo a widely recognised act of solidarity. You'd have to have no capacity to understand how that action may be construed by the generally apolitical players on the pitch.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:36 pm
You think its clear, I think it could be clearer still. You got your knickers in a twist because you thought this would somehow exclude other racist actions.
Haha - close, but no cigar. But if we were to agree that it could be clearer - and that's moot - then we must also be agreeing that Nigel is stating that all racist acts, including booing the taking of the knee, will result in a life ban. That's crystal clear then.
Did you read this back before you pressed Submit? If so, then I think you should just pull the covers back over your head and stay there.
This isn't about Left vs Right - that's just the pigeon-holing of views that the media and hard of thinking like to project. It makes it easier for them to disparage contrary opinions. This is about racism, pure and simple. Either you're a racist or you aren't.
Same as Brexit eh mate. It’s boring. Nobody listens to a word people like you have to say anymore.
Hahahaha - who mentioned Brexit? Oh you did, trying to conflate Anti-Racism with being Anti-Brexit. Nice try but stick to the topic. So are you a big fat racist then?
Why do the left use racist as a slur all the time. Bizzare. We have inherited the fight flight response from our ancestors. Fear of the outsider. It’s hardwired into our dna and there is nothing you or I can do about it. It helped us survive for thousands of years. It’s a good thing. The difference is the right just accept it’s there but on a day to day basis take people as they find them. The left on the other hand, it drives them nuts. They hate having any thought that’s not pure. They spend their whole time trying to purge themselves by calling every one else names so they can feel better about themselves. Suck it up guys. We are all a little bit racist.
Same as Brexit eh mate. It’s boring. Nobody listens to a word people like you have to say anymore.
Hahahaha - who mentioned Brexit? Oh you did, trying to conflate Anti-Racism with being Anti-Brexit. Nice try but stick to the topic. So are you a big fat racist then?
Why do the left use racist as a slur all the time. Bizzare. We have inherited the fight flight response from our ancestors. Fear of the outsider. It’s hardwired into our dna and there is nothing you or I can do about it. It helped us survive for thousands of years. It’s a good thing. The difference is the right just accept it’s there but on a day to day basis take people as they find them. The left on the other hand, it drives them nuts. They hate having any thought that’s not pure. They spend their whole time trying to purge themselves by calling every one else names so they can feel better about themselves. Suck it up guys. We are all a little bit racist.
Debates surrounding racism are now all but impossible. Rather than reducing racism it just pushes it underground. This is not healthy.
This is just b/s. I can't recall a time in my life when racists were more embolded to spew their filth. It's become less subtle and more mainstream rather than being pushed underground.
Don’t disagree Max. The issue Max as I see it is not the racists themselves, they will always be vocal as you rightly say, but the ability of those of us that despise racism being able to debate. Debate can be a form of education, bring these things out into the open. Raise awareness. Bring about change. Reduce racism over time. Debate is healthy. Taking the knee is about raising awareness.
It’s the open debate that is being stifled. I can guarantee that people wanting to talk honestly about racism, even those let’s say who don’t agree with taking the knee, will immediately be jumped upon as being racist, even when that is not the case So it’s easier to keep quiet.
What do you want to talk about but feel you can’t?
Same as Brexit eh mate. It’s boring. Nobody listens to a word people like you have to say anymore.
Hahahaha - who mentioned Brexit? Oh you did, trying to conflate Anti-Racism with being Anti-Brexit. Nice try but stick to the topic. So are you a big fat racist then?
Why do the left use racist as a slur all the time. Bizzare. We have inherited the fight flight response from our ancestors. Fear of the outsider. It’s hardwired into our dna and there is nothing you or I can do about it. It helped us survive for thousands of years. It’s a good thing. The difference is the right just accept it’s there but on a day to day basis take people as they find them. The left on the other hand, it drives them nuts. They hate having any thought that’s not pure. They spend their whole time trying to purge themselves by calling every one else names so they can feel better about themselves. Suck it up guys. We are all a little bit racist.
Can you really not see how stupid you seem by comparing current racist views with fight or flight responses that all animals have? Probably not I would guess. Your point about "the right" accepting this whilst "the left" can't handle it is just bizarre. It's absolute BS of course, with no scientific backing at all and only goes to prove that you can only make sense of the World by keeping it simple (very simple) by making it all about left vs right. We're talking about racism here, either you are racist or your aren't. I'm getting strong vibes from you about which side of the coin you fall under.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:36 pm
You think its clear, I think it could be clearer still. You got your knickers in a twist because you thought this would somehow exclude other racist actions.
Haha - close, but no cigar. But if we were to agree that it could be clearer - and that's moot - then we must also be agreeing that Nigel is stating that all racist acts, including booing the taking of the knee, will result in a life ban. That's crystal clear then.
I am in agreement with racism should = ban. I think thats something 99% of us would agree on.
I dont think we are all too far apart here. Most of us agree that racism is bad. The problem is BLM put a load of peoples backs up with statue defacing, riots, theyve blocked airports before, they're openly anti capitalist and anti police. So now we have this anti-racist gesture which 99% of people would normally go along with if it were not closely associated with BLM. The PL distanced themselves at the end of last season by removing BLM logo from shirts. I'm not sure if the knee was rebranded or not, if they did, it didnt work. I dont know what the answer is
I'm up for offering my services, free of charge, to attend the games along with a team of fellow woke boarders, to spot and identify any fans who boo or who are racist, homophobic, sexist, etc...in any way and to grass them up to the club so they get banned.
Prestige Worldwide wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:06 pm
I dont think we are all too far apart here. Most of us agree that racism is bad. The problem is BLM put a load of peoples backs up with statue defacing, riots, theyve blocked airports before, they're openly anti capitalist and anti police. So now we have this anti-racist gesture which 99% of people would normally go along with if it were not closely associated with BLM. The PL distanced themselves at the end of last season by removing BLM logo from shirts. I'm not sure if the knee was rebranded or not, if they did, it didnt work. I dont know what the answer is
This is exactly it.
I don't agree with booing of players who take the knee but don't like the universal acceptance of BLM as a political movement and the idea that anyone who opposes it is racist. That's a dangerously divisive narrative.
Think the club is setting a risky precedent threatening bans too. Don't doubt that many of those who booed are probably racist, but don't see how you can prove the act of booing a gesture as racist or discriminatory - where does the line get drawn in future? Still, my f*cking chairman etc
