need a rest

Chat about Leyton Orient (or anything else)

Moderator: Long slender neck

User avatar
Long slender neck
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 14263
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:13 am
Has thanked: 2493 times
Been thanked: 3282 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Long slender neck »

Cavalier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:48 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:36 pm
Thor wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:12 pm Didn’t forest win the league title with something like 14 players and Liverpool with 13 or something crazy like that?
Yes, cos the modern game is exactly the same as it was back in the 70s.
Better pitches, softer balls hardly any physical contact.
Better transport links.
42 league games a season.
No penalty shoot outs in the Fa cup.
1 substitute.
Seems like a tougher time to me.
Still, people were tougher in general.
Why do you say that?
J R Hartley
Fresh Alias
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:04 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: need a rest

Post by J R Hartley »

Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.
User avatar
tuffers#1
Boardin' 24/7
Boardin' 24/7
Posts: 9998
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:11 pm
Awards: Boarder of the year 2020 #1 Wordle cheat
Has thanked: 6291 times
Been thanked: 2728 times

Re: need a rest

Post by tuffers#1 »

J R Hartley wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... -puel/amp/

CONFIRMED Leicester City team news: Jamie Vardy dropped for West Ham clash amid reports of falling out with Claude Puel

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 72364/amp/

Jurgen Klopp explains why Mohamed Salah has been dropped for Liverpool vs Everton Comment

Your point is JR ?
User avatar
Disoriented
Boardin' 24/7
Boardin' 24/7
Posts: 6534
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:06 pm
Location: Valhalla
Awards: Idiot of the year 2020
Has thanked: 509 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Disoriented »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:10 pm
Cavalier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:48 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:36 pm

Yes, cos the modern game is exactly the same as it was back in the 70s.
Better pitches, softer balls hardly any physical contact.
Better transport links.
42 league games a season.
No penalty shoot outs in the Fa cup.
1 substitute.
Seems like a tougher time to me.
Still, people were tougher in general.
:lol:

An average L2 player of today would p*ss all over a top flight player of 50 years ago. There’s no comparison.

You could go out on the p*ss 5 nights a week and still win a World Cup in the 60s or 70s. Things have moved on.
Spot on. It is difficult to argue against this logic, but some will still try.
moonwalk19
Tiresome troll
Tiresome troll
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:06 pm
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 253 times

Re: need a rest

Post by moonwalk19 »

Embleton is just an average manager. Win 3 then lose 3 . His playing tactics and substitutes have sometimes been woeful with a lot of players playing out of position. The time to try these tactics is pre season not mid season. You have got to have a settled side and using subs only when you need to.
Ronnie Hotdogs
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 13069
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2637 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

J R Hartley wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.
That true.

It’s also true that we weren’t playing 2 games per week, week after week, month after month, as we have done so far this season.

Saturday was our 18th game in the 2 months 1 week this season has been going.
Ronnie Hotdogs
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 13069
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2637 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

Disoriented wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:52 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:10 pm
Cavalier wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:48 pm

Better pitches, softer balls hardly any physical contact.
Better transport links.
42 league games a season.
No penalty shoot outs in the Fa cup.
1 substitute.
Seems like a tougher time to me.
Still, people were tougher in general.
:lol:

An average L2 player of today would p*ss all over a top flight player of 50 years ago. There’s no comparison.

You could go out on the p*ss 5 nights a week and still win a World Cup in the 60s or 70s. Things have moved on.
Spot on. It is difficult to argue against this logic, but some will still try.
Can you imagine World Cup winning George Cohen trying to keep pace with James Brophy for 90 minutes? He wouldn’t get near him.

The game has moved on, as have professional athletes in all sports.
ContrifibulatoryFred
Tiresome troll
Tiresome troll
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 564 times
Been thanked: 504 times

Re: need a rest

Post by ContrifibulatoryFred »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:57 am
Disoriented wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:52 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:10 pm

:lol:

An average L2 player of today would p*ss all over a top flight player of 50 years ago. There’s no comparison.

You could go out on the p*ss 5 nights a week and still win a World Cup in the 60s or 70s. Things have moved on.
Spot on. It is difficult to argue against this logic, but some will still try.
Can you imagine World Cup winning George Cohen trying to keep pace with James Brophy for 90 minutes? He wouldn’t get near him.

The game has moved on, as have professional athletes in all sports.
What drivel!
Cohen would simply have been able to wait for the inevitable moment when Brophy cuts inside before chopping his legs from under him.
Clive Evans
Tiresome troll
Tiresome troll
Posts: 1555
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:48 am
Has thanked: 345 times
Been thanked: 360 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Clive Evans »

I feel that I need a rest from this Message Board- But there is naff all else for an oldie to do in " Lockdown ".
Beradogs
Bored office worker
Bored office worker
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 1025 times
Been thanked: 917 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Beradogs »

In fitness, nutrition, tactics yes, it’s a completely different game. But you are comparing bananas to lampposts. If George Cohen, using you’re example, had a years access to all of today’s fitness methods, tactics etc he would make Brophy look like a lower league two plodder-which he is.
I would argue that players of the past were actually better than players of today using simple mathematics. More people played football previously, therefore the pool of players was greater ergo to get to the top was harder than it is today.
Ronnie Hotdogs
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 13069
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2637 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

Beradogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:08 am In fitness, nutrition, tactics yes, it’s a completely different game. But you are comparing bananas to lampposts. If George Cohen, using you’re example, had a years access to all of today’s fitness methods, tactics etc he would make Brophy look like a lower league two plodder-which he is.
I would argue that players of the past were actually better than players of today using simple mathematics. More people played football previously, therefore the pool of players was greater ergo to get to the top was harder than it is today.
Mor people played football? Right oh.

Regardless, this is about the demands on an athletes body today, compared with 50 years ago. The human body cannot perform at its peak for 90 minutes, twice per week for a prolonged basis.
Smendrick Feaselberg
Boardin' 24/7
Boardin' 24/7
Posts: 7326
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 1099 times
Been thanked: 1343 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Smendrick Feaselberg »

Beradogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:08 am In fitness, nutrition, tactics yes, it’s a completely different game. But you are comparing bananas to lampposts. If George Cohen, using you’re example, had a years access to all of today’s fitness methods, tactics etc he would make Brophy look like a lower league two plodder-which he is.
I would argue that players of the past were actually better than players of today using simple mathematics. More people played football previously, therefore the pool of players was greater ergo to get to the top was harder than it is today.
Do you really think having access to tools and information is all it takes to improve people? If that's the case you could just give an alcoholic a self help book/course and resolve that. Or give a fat person access to a gym or a pair of trainers and a fitness plan and they'll become thin. It doesn't work like that though.

Just having access to tools, fitness methods and tactical information isn't enough. Would players back then have have even wanted to give up their days on the piss? While things are different now players back then still had a choice of working out and getting fitter after training ended. Or improving their knowledge and understanding of the game. How many took that opportunity though?
Beradogs
Bored office worker
Bored office worker
Posts: 2656
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 1025 times
Been thanked: 917 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Beradogs »

Not sure I get the point. No, players back then may not have wanted to give up drinking but if Arsene Wenger had been transported back in time he would have made them or they would have been dropped.
Ronnie Hotdogs
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 13069
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2637 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

And if Arsenal Wenger had made them perform physically at the levels they do today, they wouldn’t have been able to play twice per week indefinitely.
User avatar
Disoriented
Boardin' 24/7
Boardin' 24/7
Posts: 6534
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:06 pm
Location: Valhalla
Awards: Idiot of the year 2020
Has thanked: 509 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Disoriented »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:57 am
Disoriented wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:52 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:10 pm

:lol:

An average L2 player of today would p*ss all over a top flight player of 50 years ago. There’s no comparison.

You could go out on the p*ss 5 nights a week and still win a World Cup in the 60s or 70s. Things have moved on.
Spot on. It is difficult to argue against this logic, but some will still try.
Can you imagine World Cup winning George Cohen trying to keep pace with James Brophy for 90 minutes? He wouldn’t get near him.

The game has moved on, as have professional athletes in all sports.
Absolutely.
Still wrong
Bored office worker
Bored office worker
Posts: 2453
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 301 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Still wrong »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:57 am
Disoriented wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:52 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:10 pm

:lol:

An average L2 player of today would p*ss all over a top flight player of 50 years ago. There’s no comparison.

You could go out on the p*ss 5 nights a week and still win a World Cup in the 60s or 70s. Things have moved on.
Spot on. It is difficult to argue against this logic, but some will still try.
Can you imagine World Cup winning George Cohen trying to keep pace with James Brophy for 90 minutes? He wouldn’t get near him.

The game has moved on, as have professional athletes in all sports.
You mean the same George Cohen who George Best said was his toughest opponent?
Brophy better than Best?😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ronnie Hotdogs
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 13069
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2637 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

I'm saying Brophy is a far superior athlete. And as a result is putting his body through more than a footballer did during the 60s (at least, on the pitch).

Things have moved on, Grandad.
User avatar
OyinbO
Bored office worker
Bored office worker
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:28 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 1400 times
Been thanked: 703 times

Re: need a rest

Post by OyinbO »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:55 am
J R Hartley wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.
That true.

It’s also true that we weren’t playing 2 games per week, week after week, month after month, as we have done so far this season.

Saturday was our 18th game in the 2 months 1 week this season has been going.
IDK, when you consider the cup run too, we did have a lot of games in the season we came up - particularly at the business end of the season. But I guess when you're successful, players want to be playing. Not much danger of that under Embleton.
Sid Bishop
Boardin' 24/7
Boardin' 24/7
Posts: 5943
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:12 am
Has thanked: 5548 times
Been thanked: 1066 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Sid Bishop »

It is a silly comparison. To think that todays Leyton orient side would have run rings around the great Leeds United, Liverpool and Manchester United teams of the mid to late 1960s is quite ridiculous. They all had top class skillful players who would have made mincemeat of the current Os side. Lastly, are we to believe that Joe Widdowson would have had been able to contain the fast dribbling skills of George Best......as if !
Still wrong
Bored office worker
Bored office worker
Posts: 2453
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 301 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Still wrong »

Sid Bishop wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:54 am It is a silly comparison. To think that todays Leyton orient side would have run rings around the great Leeds United, Liverpool and Manchester United teams of the mid to late 1960s is quite ridiculous. They all had top class skillful players who would have made mincemeat of the current Os side. Lastly, are we to believe that Joe Widdowson would have had been able to contain the fast dribbling skills of George Best......as if !
Sid,
Coulson marking Greaves or Law.😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
gshaw
Boardin' 24/7
Boardin' 24/7
Posts: 7677
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:24 pm
Has thanked: 3377 times
Been thanked: 1747 times

Re: need a rest

Post by gshaw »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:13 am
Regardless, this is about the demands on an athletes body today, compared with 50 years ago. The human body cannot perform at its peak for 90 minutes, twice per week for a prolonged basis.
That's why quality of the squad is important and one of our weaknesses that while we may have some decent upper L2 players in the first XI there's a lack of quality behind that.

Why Embleton didn't just swap Johnson for Wilkinson then JMD to fill Wilkinson's spot on the right in the normal formation is mystery of the day.
Ronnie Hotdogs
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 13069
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2637 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

OyinbO wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:47 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:55 am
J R Hartley wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:39 am Did we ever drop Macauly Bonn for a game, thought he played non stop for us from the word go never missed a match.
That true.

It’s also true that we weren’t playing 2 games per week, week after week, month after month, as we have done so far this season.

Saturday was our 18th game in the 2 months 1 week this season has been going.
IDK, when you consider the cup run too, we did have a lot of games in the season we came up - particularly at the business end of the season. But I guess when you're successful, players want to be playing. Not much danger of that under Embleton.
I don’t think people appreciate just how many games have been played.

Other than 1 Tuesday early in September, we’ve had a game every single Saturday and Tuesday between the start of September and now. That’s phenomenal.

Extrapolate that out over a full season and you’re looking at something like 80 games. Even the heroes of the 60s and 70s didn’t play that many. :D
Ronnie Hotdogs
MB Legend
MB Legend
Posts: 13069
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:40 pm
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 2637 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

Sid Bishop wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:54 am It is a silly comparison. To think that todays Leyton orient side would have run rings around the great Leeds United, Liverpool and Manchester United teams of the mid to late 1960s is quite ridiculous. They all had top class skillful players who would have made mincemeat of the current Os side. Lastly, are we to believe that Joe Widdowson would have had been able to contain the fast dribbling skills of George Best......as if !
Fitness wise, they’d have been shot by the end of the first half.
User avatar
OyinbO
Bored office worker
Bored office worker
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:28 pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 1400 times
Been thanked: 703 times

Re: need a rest

Post by OyinbO »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:24 pm
OyinbO wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:47 am
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:55 am

That true.

It’s also true that we weren’t playing 2 games per week, week after week, month after month, as we have done so far this season.

Saturday was our 18th game in the 2 months 1 week this season has been going.
IDK, when you consider the cup run too, we did have a lot of games in the season we came up - particularly at the business end of the season. But I guess when you're successful, players want to be playing. Not much danger of that under Embleton.
I don’t think people appreciate just how many games have been played.

Other than 1 Tuesday early in September, we’ve had a game every single Saturday and Tuesday between the start of September and now. That’s phenomenal.

Extrapolate that out over a full season and you’re looking at something like 80 games. Even the heroes of the 60s and 70s didn’t play that many. :D
True, but I doubt we'll be playing with that intensity for much longer, as we drop out of the cup competitions. And let's not forget that all the other clubs have the same problem this season too*

*appreciate you're making a different argument, about the generational comparison
Oiram
Bored office worker
Bored office worker
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:09 am
Has thanked: 2003 times
Been thanked: 269 times

Re: need a rest

Post by Oiram »

tuffers#1 wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:22 pm Germany & Japan both swear by it

Both lost the 2nd world war & yet
Are remarkably further ahead in the
World than here .

Maybe it is time to learn a few things from losing .

https://businessculture.org/western-eur ... n-germany/

http://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/AJ ... 10001.html

😁
Daft analogy
Post Reply