Conduct charge and Fine

[OyinbO]

Yup. So our failure to deal with the outbreak ourselves has:

• Cost us the revenue from the Spurs match (£150k)

• Deprived us of the opportunity to watch the match (albeit online)

• Taken away the possibility of progress in the competition, including a match against Chelsea

• Resulted in the postponement of yesterday’s match, which will cause further congestion in our already very compressed schedule

• created a risk of sanctions (financial and otherwise) from the EFL

• Risked the health of our players and staff

• Made us look like clowns

• possibly precipitated a wider crisis in the sport

Not bad going, that

[Story of O]

You do realise other clubs have had games postponed because of Covid.

[RedDwarf 1881]

Oxford had 4 players test positive on Thursday, they played today.

All clubs should be testing players on a regular basis before this season turns into a farce

[Chelmsford Swimmer]

Oxford had 4 players test positive on Thursday, they played today.

Just for the record, the four Oxford players tested Negative.

[EliotNes]

EFL are bound to fine us. They need the money to support the payments they are making to other EFL clubs.

[BiggsyMalone]

You do realise other clubs have had games postponed because of Covid.

It's not about the positive tests or games being postponed because of positive tests. It's about the week leading up to those tests and how Orient how Orient dealt with 9 players with a 'bug' and the 2 players who showed 'covid symptoms' on the Friday. On the outside it seems like Orient have picked and choosed when they would follow the EFL's guidelines and when they'd follow the government guidelines.

Honestly, this isn't hard to get your head around. It's baffling how few people on here seem to get it and think the EFL are picking on Orient. They're doing their job.

[LittleMate]

But it’s expensive to do the regular testing, Maffy. At a time Clubs Income has fallen through the floor.

I think you were right a bit early to suggest Orient have put money before health on this. They aren’t alone, and though some will whine the EFL didn’t insist on mandatory tests so we did nothing wrong, that overlooks how the EFL works: the Clubs basically vote on the rules and regs rather than have some head honcho lay down the law.

I can see the season petering out quite quickly as more positive tests shut down Clubs, especially as they will (nearly) all be making losses with no gate income. It’s already happening at NLN level where the clubs there have said they’d rather not start playing with no income and no gate money.

I totally accept the financial difficulties and respect the efforts of the Board who are putting their hands deep into their pockets to keep us going. I am genuinely grateful.

But.

I honestly believe, in this particular case, the club got it wrong.

I think that's called hindsight. If we'd never been tested then both Tuesday's and yesterdays game would have gone ahead with no player being any wiser - and probably no more ill.

As for the topic, if they charge & fine the O's then it will set a number of dangerous precedents with Nigel having spoken out about being open the first of them. The second would be the number of situations they would have to determine upon. Grimsby called off after one or two positives on Friday. That sounded a bit weak to me. There will be many other instances in the next 2-3 months. The EFL HQ would be more like a doctors inquest than a HQ running football.

[OyinbO]

But it’s expensive to do the regular testing, Maffy. At a time Clubs Income has fallen through the floor.

I think you were right a bit early to suggest Orient have put money before health on this. They aren’t alone, and though some will whine the EFL didn’t insist on mandatory tests so we did nothing wrong, that overlooks how the EFL works: the Clubs basically vote on the rules and regs rather than have some head honcho lay down the law.

I can see the season petering out quite quickly as more positive tests shut down Clubs, especially as they will (nearly) all be making losses with no gate income. It’s already happening at NLN level where the clubs there have said they’d rather not start playing with no income and no gate money.

I totally accept the financial difficulties and respect the efforts of the Board who are putting their hands deep into their pockets to keep us going. I am genuinely grateful.

But.

I honestly believe, in this particular case, the club got it wrong.

I think that's called hindsight. If we'd never been tested then both Tuesday's and yesterdays game would have gone ahead with no player being any wiser - and probably no more ill.

As for the topic, if they charge & fine the O's then it will set a number of dangerous precedents with Nigel having spoken out about being open the first of them. The second would be the number of situations they would have to determine upon. Grimsby called off after one or two positives on Friday. That sounded a bit weak to me. There will be many other instances in the next 2-3 months. The EFL HQ would be more like a doctors inquest than a HQ running football.

Again, this omits a key point that seriously undermines our defence: 17/18 positive tests (not just two or three) and several players displaying symptoms over the preceding week.

Yes, the system is crap. Yes, the government has made an almighty mess of its response. But only Leyton Orient Football Club is responsible for what goes on at Leyton Orient Football Club.

Our mistake was not to agree to Spurs offer of free testing (did Nige agree to that without having been told how unwell the squad had been?) but to allow illness to go through the squad for a week, during a pandemic, without taking any mitigating action.

The club has, understandably, been quiet about the details of that period, but they won’t deny it; because it’s true and a lot of the evidence is already in the hands of the EFL.

Though some of us may try hard to look elsewhere, there’s no escaping these salient facts.

[Thor]

Oxford had 4 players test positive on Thursday, they played today.

All clubs should be testing players on a regular basis before this season turns into a farce

agreed, but where does the money come from? Its not cheap to test a whole squad let alone a whole club.

[Ornchurch]

You do realise other clubs have had games postponed because of Covid.

It's not about the positive tests or games being postponed because of positive tests. It's about the week leading up to those tests and how Orient how Orient dealt with 9 players with a 'bug' and the 2 players who showed 'covid symptoms' on the Friday. On the outside it seems like Orient have picked and choosed when they would follow the EFL's guidelines and when they'd follow the government guidelines.

Honestly, this isn't hard to get your head around. It's baffling how few people on here seem to get it and think the EFL are picking on Orient. They're doing their job.

In your opinion.

[Adz]

If we've broken any rules we deserve to be fined and sanctioned. A lot of the way we've gone about this doesn't sit well with me, but I can't see what rules we actually broke

[Dohnut]

All clubs should be testing players on a regular basis before this season turns into a farce

agreed, but where does the money come from? Its not cheap to test a whole squad let alone a whole club.

Lfc is a buisness - the testing is an expense that is tax deductible

We are in a new virus enviroment - that should force the buisness to review and adjust the expenditure appropriately

It's called risk management - Nigel will know about all that

Nigel is a proven buisness leader with him as a chairman and their management system of continuing reporting I am at a loss at what actually happened that has put Lofc at such a risk in everyway

It not a case of us fans trying to work out who actually is to blame in Lofc or outside the end position is we lost out and our club is atm is decimated

Are there taxes to deduct from when you are making a £2.5m loss? Any accountants out there.

Credit is due to our owners who are digging deep to keep us going. Them finding the sort of extra money needed for testing is no doubt significant, even for them.

But I will raise an issue again that causes me to wonder. Lovely guys as they are, why have we recruited additional coaches in these difficult times, I still wonder what Harold does, do we really need Lawless, when money is so tight and we cannot afford to look after the existing squad. Could we not have better utilised current resource in these very difficult times rather than recruit. Have Harold and Lawless introduced skills we don’t already have? I doubt it.

So we have money to add layers in the coaching staff, but not to test players.

[BiggsyMalone]

You do realise other clubs have had games postponed because of Covid.

It's not about the positive tests or games being postponed because of positive tests. It's about the week leading up to those tests and how Orient how Orient dealt with 9 players with a 'bug' and the 2 players who showed 'covid symptoms' on the Friday. On the outside it seems like Orient have picked and choosed when they would follow the EFL's guidelines and when they'd follow the government guidelines.

Honestly, this isn't hard to get your head around. It's baffling how few people on here seem to get it and think the EFL are picking on Orient. They're doing their job.

In your opinion.

What part of that is my opinion?

[spen666]

If we've broken any rules we deserve to be fined and sanctioned. A lot of the way we've gone about this doesn't sit well with me, but I can't see what rules we actually broke

Failing to fulfill a fixture is one rule broken

[Adz]

If we've broken any rules we deserve to be fined and sanctioned. A lot of the way we've gone about this doesn't sit well with me, but I can't see what rules we actually broke

Failing to fulfill a fixture is one rule broken

You talking about the league game or cup?

[Dohnut]

You do realise other clubs have had games postponed because of Covid.

It's not about the positive tests or games being postponed because of positive tests. It's about the week leading up to those tests and how Orient how Orient dealt with 9 players with a 'bug' and the 2 players who showed 'covid symptoms' on the Friday. On the outside it seems like Orient have picked and choosed when they would follow the EFL's guidelines and when they'd follow the government guidelines.

Honestly, this isn't hard to get your head around. It's baffling how few people on here seem to get it and think the EFL are picking on Orient. They're doing their job.

In your opinion.

It’s my opinion too. And to be fair it’s a reasonable opinion. Do I believe the EFL are picking on Orient? Absolutely not, why would they.

[OyinbO]

My opinion also. And, maybe even that of our Chairman, who stressed his admiration for the leadership of the EFL during last week’s Q&A.

And there’s no use pointing to other clubs every time they find a small handful of positive cases among their squad. It just confirms how it is possible to identify and get on top of it before virtually the entire first team squad gets infected.

[spen666]

If we've broken any rules we deserve to be fined and sanctioned. A lot of the way we've gone about this doesn't sit well with me, but I can't see what rules we actually broke

Failing to fulfill a fixture is one rule broken

You talking about the league game or cup?

They failed to fulfill both.

Been dealt with for Cup game by forfeiting the Cup tie

[tuffers#1]

Failing to fulfill a fixture is one rule broken

You talking about the league game or cup?

They failed to fulfill both.

Been dealt with for Cup game by forfeiting the Cup tie

Just the spurs game was not able to be fullfilled
The other was postponed by the EFL covered under EFL Rules & Guidelines.


All persons will be expected to self-declare that they have not, within the past 14 days, been in
contact with anyone with suspected or confirmed Covid-19, nor are they displaying any symptoms
of Covid-19.
A temperature screening service should be present at each entrance of the stadium. Aa base line
should be agreed with your Covid-19 Medical Officer. All those allowed to get into the stadium will
have their temperature scanned. Should person display an elevated temperature reading then
that person will be refused entry / taken to the isolation room.
Social distancing should be maintained at each testing point.
Where a person displays a temperature and is refused entry, a thorough clean of that area must
take place ahead of anyone else accessing it.
Should this be defined as a key role – the role contingency contact should be instructed to make
their way to the stadium.
Relevant Staff and Match Officials should undertake testing as dictated by the EFL. They must
have produced a negative test result in the testing round prior to the matchday to be declared fit.
They must still undertake temperature checks and self-declare at the entry point to the ground.

EFL Stadium rules for League games

[Dohnut]

Lfc is a buisness - the testing is an expense that is tax deductible

We are in a new virus enviroment - that should force the buisness to review and adjust the expenditure appropriately

It's called risk management - Nigel will know about all that

Nigel is a proven buisness leader with him as a chairman and their management system of continuing reporting I am at a loss at what actually happened that has put Lofc at such a risk in everyway

It not a case of us fans trying to work out who actually is to blame in Lofc or outside the end position is we lost out and our club is atm is decimated

Are there taxes to deduct from when you are making a £2.5m loss?

When a trading company makes either a profit or a loss - all related buisness expenses that were incurred are offset in that tax year .

The resulting net profit or loss does not determine if an expense is allowable

It is either a genuine buisness expense of not - virus testing is .

All that would happen is whatever loss they incurred will be a slightly different loss

I sort of understand that, but I’m no accountant. But does that translate into real money or just numbers in the accounts. Maybe a dumb question.

[tuffers#1]

Numbers in the accounts is real money

Yep it's money that the Lofc company will have to find

When a buisness fails to find money &
goes out of buisness , is that tax deductable ?

[spen666]

You talking about the league game or cup?

They failed to fulfill both.

Been dealt with for Cup game by forfeiting the Cup tie

Just the spurs game was not able to be fullfilled
The other was postponed by the EFL covered under EFL Rules & Guidelines.


All persons will be expected to self-declare that they have not, within the past 14 days, been in
contact with anyone with suspected or confirmed Covid-19, nor are they displaying any symptoms
of Covid-19.
A temperature screening service should be present at each entrance of the stadium. Aa base line
should be agreed with your Covid-19 Medical Officer. All those allowed to get into the stadium will
have their temperature scanned. Should person display an elevated temperature reading then
that person will be refused entry / taken to the isolation room.
Social distancing should be maintained at each testing point.
Where a person displays a temperature and is refused entry, a thorough clean of that area must
take place ahead of anyone else accessing it.
Should this be defined as a key role – the role contingency contact should be instructed to make
their way to the stadium.
Relevant Staff and Match Officials should undertake testing as dictated by the EFL. They must
have produced a negative test result in the testing round prior to the matchday to be declared fit.
They must still undertake temperature checks and self-declare at the entry point to the ground.

EFL Stadium rules for League games

You keep telling yourself this, in the meantime, the EFL will deal with Orient for failing to fulfill the fixture.

You are cutting and pasting loads of things out of context

If the real world, if Orient tell the EFL they can't put out a team then they have failed to fulfill the fixture

[tuffers#1]

They failed to fulfill both.

Been dealt with for Cup game by forfeiting the Cup tie

Just the spurs game was not able to be fullfilled
The other was postponed by the EFL covered under EFL Rules & Guidelines.


All persons will be expected to self-declare that they have not, within the past 14 days, been in
contact with anyone with suspected or confirmed Covid-19, nor are they displaying any symptoms
of Covid-19.
A temperature screening service should be present at each entrance of the stadium. Aa base line
should be agreed with your Covid-19 Medical Officer. All those allowed to get into the stadium will
have their temperature scanned. Should person display an elevated temperature reading then
that person will be refused entry / taken to the isolation room.
Social distancing should be maintained at each testing point.
Where a person displays a temperature and is refused entry, a thorough clean of that area must
take place ahead of anyone else accessing it.
Should this be defined as a key role – the role contingency contact should be instructed to make
their way to the stadium.
Relevant Staff and Match Officials should undertake testing as dictated by the EFL. They must
have produced a negative test result in the testing round prior to the matchday to be declared fit.
They must still undertake temperature checks and self-declare at the entry point to the ground.

EFL Stadium rules for League games

You keep telling yourself this, in the meantime, the EFL will deal with Orient for failing to fulfill the fixture.

You are cutting and pasting loads of things out of context

If the real world, if Orient tell the EFL they can't put out a team then they have failed to fulfill the fixture

Covid saftey rules as written in Efl Rules supercede
All other rules.

Its all covered in the EFL rules .

Nothing is out of context with regards to
RULES set out before the season starts

[spen666]

Just the spurs game was not able to be fullfilled
The other was postponed by the EFL covered under EFL Rules & Guidelines.


All persons will be expected to self-declare that they have not, within the past 14 days, been in
contact with anyone with suspected or confirmed Covid-19, nor are they displaying any symptoms
of Covid-19.
A temperature screening service should be present at each entrance of the stadium. Aa base line
should be agreed with your Covid-19 Medical Officer. All those allowed to get into the stadium will
have their temperature scanned. Should person display an elevated temperature reading then
that person will be refused entry / taken to the isolation room.
Social distancing should be maintained at each testing point.
Where a person displays a temperature and is refused entry, a thorough clean of that area must
take place ahead of anyone else accessing it.
Should this be defined as a key role – the role contingency contact should be instructed to make
their way to the stadium.
Relevant Staff and Match Officials should undertake testing as dictated by the EFL. They must
have produced a negative test result in the testing round prior to the matchday to be declared fit.
They must still undertake temperature checks and self-declare at the entry point to the ground.

EFL Stadium rules for League games

You keep telling yourself this, in the meantime, the EFL will deal with Orient for failing to fulfill the fixture.

You are cutting and pasting loads of things out of context

If the real world, if Orient tell the EFL they can't put out a team then they have failed to fulfill the fixture

Covid saftey rules as written in Efl Rules supercede
All other rules.

Its all covered in the EFL rules .

Nothing is out of context with regards to
RULES set out before the season starts

Its all out of context, because the issue is dod Orient fulfill the fixture yesterday. They didn't because they told the EFL they couldn’t field a team.

Stadium rules are irrelevant if you Don't turn up with a team.


You were proven to be 100% wrong re the Spurs game as Orient despite what you claimed failed to fulfill the fixture and forfeited the tie

You seem to allow your support for Orient to blind you to the reality of the situation.

Sometimes you have to accept that your club have transgressed the rules and stop trying to defend the indefensible..

Orient failed to fulfill the fixture yesterday. The statement from Orient on the club website confirms this, so why you try to argue against it is beyond me

[tuffers#1]

Sometimes you have to accept that your club have transgressed the rules and stop trying to defend the indefensible..

Orient failed to fulfill the fixture yesterday. The statement from Orient on the club website confirms this, so why you try to argue against it is beyond me

EFL postponed the game as Orient were not available as
STADIUM RULES with regards TO COVID would
Have been BROKEN.