Conduct charge and Fine

[ComeOnYouOs]

At the end of this, we will get fined AND will be subject to a points reduction. Probably 3 points, but could be as high as 6 points.
I bet the club regrets having those tests now

[Fellowo]

Here's some fun facts for you;

None of the players were displaying Covid symptoms, in fact if you think that only 9 out of the 18 that tested positive were ill to varying levels of degree, that means another 9 didn't even know they had it.

You are only supposed to get a Covid test if you are displaying Covid symptoms. The players weren't so they didn't.

The EFL made it optional for tests, the PFA have gone along with it thus happy for their members to be at risk.

The EFL let the West Ham v Hull game to continue.

West Ham continued to play the game knowing that they could be putting the Hull players at risk.

Both Hull and Brentford refused tests thus Happy to put their own and opposition players at risk.

If we had to put a weaker team out and kept losing, you'd all be moaning.


The point is that whilst it may look like we didn't follow protocols, we followed the government guidelines and the fact is that the EFL and PFA are sitting back and letting players be at risk of catching it and then spreading it to their families.

[spen666]

Not just that - they need to go on the offensive and justify kicking us out of the competition when we were able to play.

You mean apart from not having a ground and or arguably a team. (The latter given they can't apparently field a team today)

Rule 5 1 applies

[Mistadobalina]

They can get to f***.

What protocols did the club break?

Imagine it's along the same lines as the rest of the population if you're demonstrating symptoms - isolate and get tested - but with some kind of teeth so that clubs don't do what we've done and press ahead anyway.

There is a perverse advantage to the bulk of our squad getting it in one hit early in the season, assuming that they all recover ok. Reduces the likelihood of this happening over and over again so we avoid fixture congestion later in the season. Really though, this incident is just underlining how impossible this season will be to complete. It's basically a write off and I'd take survival, both as a league team and a functioning club, in a heartbeat.

The medical commentary released from the medical base say that the virus can and does show signs that it can mutate and the original concept of herd immunity is not going to be effective and or if one gets it they could get it again

Best all intellect and monies forcus on the management and eradication of this virus- and it seems football will be a secondary thing

There's only been two recorded instances of reinfection so far. If producing our own antibodies doesn't work then we're f*cked, that's basically what a vaccine is supposed to do.

[Mistadobalina]

I wasn’t aware that the players were showing Covid symptoms, I thought they’d said it was just a bug ( I haven’t listened to the interviews or Q and A stuff).

If we had a squad of players with the sweats, consistently coughing and unable to smell or taste and we ignored that, then fair enough.

By the sounds of it, we had a bug and also had Covid.

Wilkinson came off at Oldham and was puking at the side of the pitch.

So if players were throwing up and it seemed a sickness bug was doing the rounds, with no one presenting Covid can kind of understand why medics thought it was a sickness bug.

I really, really doubt the only symptom was nausea, and even then, that's enough to err on the side of caution in this climate, particularly since it went through the squad incredibly quickly, which would suggest it's more infectious than your typical bug. It's a symptom I got when I (think) I had covid, have had a few friends say something similar.

[tuffers#1]

In Australia and all humans are the same I think in a virus climate one would or may suspect it could be a byproduct of this virus

Yes there are specific range of markers published that we as non medical people follow but no one actually knows the definitive number of markers

He may of been sick because he ate a wrong breakfast or if he has a child they may have a flu bug but hey this is a virus climate and the range of considerations has to be to include any deviation from the normal

But LOFC isnt in Australia
Its in the UK which is being run by
The incompetent wooly haired one

[BiggsyMalone]

Here's some fun facts for you;

None of the players were displaying Covid symptoms, in fact if you think that only 9 out of the 18 that tested positive were ill to varying levels of degree, that means another 9 didn't even know they had it.

You are only supposed to get a Covid test if you are displaying Covid symptoms. The players weren't so they didn't.

The EFL made it optional for tests, the PFA have gone along with it thus happy for their members to be at risk.

The EFL let the West Ham v Hull game to continue.

West Ham continued to play the game knowing that they could be putting the Hull players at risk.

Both Hull and Brentford refused tests thus Happy to put their own and opposition players at risk.

If we had to put a weaker team out and kept losing, you'd all be moaning.


The point is that whilst it may look like we didn't follow protocols, we followed the government guidelines and the fact is that the EFL and PFA are sitting back and letting players be at risk of catching it and then spreading it to their families.

What I posted clearly shows what the EFL describe as covid related symptoms. Are you really suggesting this bug that was in the club didn't have any of those symptoms? You also ignore the part where 2 players were showing clear signs of the virus on the Friday and the game still went ahead with no tests performed on that day.

As for your last point. Nothing stopped Orient from going above and beyond.

[tuffers#1]

It's not the EFL kicking Orient when they're down. It's the EFL doing their job and investigating whether a club didn't follow the guidelines properly. I hope they come back and say 'Orient did everything right, nothing to see here'.

Going by the below, I wonder what the bug was that didn't include ANY of the below symptoms.

As we know it, 9 players were off last week with a bug and 2 players on Friday had some of a new cough, fever, shortness of breath, loss of taste or smell. At no point was anyone tested and we still went ahead with the match against Mansfield.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/6475a ... .05.20.pdf

Page 17:
COVID SYMPTOM EXAMPLE SCREENING QUESTIONNAIRE 2020

New Cough*
Fever/Temperature*
Unusually Short of Breath during exercise or at rest*
Loss of Smell*
Loss of Taste*
Red Eyes or Sticky Eyes
New Abdominal Pain or Diarrhoea
New Blocked/Runny Nose
New unusual fatigue with muscle and joint pains
Headache
Feeling generally unwell in any other way

If you have had any of these symptoms, please report it to your medical staff immediately BEFORE ATTENDING training
*Indicates most sensitive symptoms
Objective fever defined as 37.6oC
*Most individuals that are positive for COVID-19 do not appear to have fever

Page 18:
RECORD SHEET FOR POSSIBLE/CONFIRMED COVID-19 CASE

A) Consider the sensitivity of individual symptoms
 Fever/Shortness of Breath/Cough/Loss of Smell or Taste are more sensitive as
individual symptoms than those not italicised.
 Fatigue, skipped meals and joint/muscle pain are the most common symptoms for
those that test positive.

B) Please consider clusters of symptoms in suspecting COVID-19, rather than individual symptoms.
1. Muco-respiratory (Fever, cough, wheeze, sore throat, runny nose, conjunctivitis)
2. Enteric (Abdominal Pain, vomiting, Diarrhoea)
3. Constitutional (Malaise, Joint Pain, Myalgia)
4. Neurological (Loss of Smell, Loss of Taste, Headache)

Predisposing medical conditions (e.g. “Hayfever”) may complicate diagnosis. Use professional judgement

That very good data summary you have posted states clearly "vomiting" - then is that not what the poor player did on the pitch ?

Why did Boss clearly say in a confident way in the interview we all saw that the bug was not the virus ? Did Boss have any medical test to prove that when he made that statement

These symptoms list have been missing in the UK since
The Virus got hear .

Cough temperature or loss of smell & taste are boris' key
Words when talking of symptoms.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Not just that - they need to go on the offensive and justify kicking us out of the competition when we were able to play.

You mean apart from not having a ground and or arguably a team. (The latter given they can't apparently field a team today)

Rule 5 1 applies

Still calling Travis a liar? Disgusting.

[BiggsyMalone]

It's not the EFL kicking Orient when they're down. It's the EFL doing their job and investigating whether a club didn't follow the guidelines properly. I hope they come back and say 'Orient did everything right, nothing to see here'.

Going by the below, I wonder what the bug was that didn't include ANY of the below symptoms.

As we know it, 9 players were off last week with a bug and 2 players on Friday had some of a new cough, fever, shortness of breath, loss of taste or smell. At no point was anyone tested and we still went ahead with the match against Mansfield.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/6475a ... .05.20.pdf

Page 17:
COVID SYMPTOM EXAMPLE SCREENING QUESTIONNAIRE 2020

New Cough*
Fever/Temperature*
Unusually Short of Breath during exercise or at rest*
Loss of Smell*
Loss of Taste*
Red Eyes or Sticky Eyes
New Abdominal Pain or Diarrhoea
New Blocked/Runny Nose
New unusual fatigue with muscle and joint pains
Headache
Feeling generally unwell in any other way

If you have had any of these symptoms, please report it to your medical staff immediately BEFORE ATTENDING training
*Indicates most sensitive symptoms
Objective fever defined as 37.6oC
*Most individuals that are positive for COVID-19 do not appear to have fever

Page 18:
RECORD SHEET FOR POSSIBLE/CONFIRMED COVID-19 CASE

A) Consider the sensitivity of individual symptoms
 Fever/Shortness of Breath/Cough/Loss of Smell or Taste are more sensitive as
individual symptoms than those not italicised.
 Fatigue, skipped meals and joint/muscle pain are the most common symptoms for
those that test positive.

B) Please consider clusters of symptoms in suspecting COVID-19, rather than individual symptoms.
1. Muco-respiratory (Fever, cough, wheeze, sore throat, runny nose, conjunctivitis)
2. Enteric (Abdominal Pain, vomiting, Diarrhoea)
3. Constitutional (Malaise, Joint Pain, Myalgia)
4. Neurological (Loss of Smell, Loss of Taste, Headache)

Predisposing medical conditions (e.g. “Hayfever”) may complicate diagnosis. Use professional judgement

That very good data summary you have posted states clearly "vomiting" - then is that not what the poor player did on the pitch ?

Why did Boss clearly say in a confident way in the interview we all saw that the bug was not the virus ? Did Boss have any medical test to prove that when he made that statement

These symptoms list have been missing in the UK since
The Virus got hear .

Cough temperature or loss of smell & taste are boris' key
Words when talking of symptoms.

Doesn't matter what Boris says. We're talking about the EFL's guidelines and whether we followed them or not.

[tuffers#1]

That very good data summary you have posted states clearly "vomiting" - then is that not what the poor player did on the pitch ?

Why did Boss clearly say in a confident way in the interview we all saw that the bug was not the virus ? Did Boss have any medical test to prove that when he made that statement

These symptoms list have been missing in the UK since
The Virus got hear .

Cough temperature or loss of smell & taste are boris' key
Words when talking of symptoms.

Doesn't matter what Boris says. We're talking about the EFL's guidelines and whether we followed them or not.

Efl guidelines that stated no testing is required ?

[Story of O]

At the end of this, we will get fined AND will be subject to a points reduction. Probably 3 points, but could be as high as 6 points.
I bet the club regrets having those tests now

As it was the cup, would we be deducted points.

[Max B Gold]

Looks like this is not going to end for the club. It’s being reported in breaking news we may be fined for breaching covid rules and probably hit with a misconduct charge.

Why don’t they just keep on kicking us whilst we are down?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ocols.html

If this is true. Orient are authors of their own misfortune by breaking the rules.

If people want to avoid punishments then don't break the rules.

The blame attaches to whoever if anyone is responsible for breaking the rules.

It has not been proven that any rules have been broken. Believe the club is Innocent until proven guilty is how it works. Unless new Covid rules have changed this.

The club should be able to get off if it appoints a good lawyer to represent it.

[BiggsyMalone]

Looks like this is not going to end for the club. It’s being reported in breaking news we may be fined for breaching covid rules and probably hit with a misconduct charge.

Why don’t they just keep on kicking us whilst we are down?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ocols.html

If this is true. Orient are authors of their own misfortune by breaking the rules.

If people want to avoid punishments then don't break the rules.

The blame attaches to whoever if anyone is responsible for breaking the rules.

It has not been proven that any rules have been broken. Believe the club is Innocent until proven guilty is how it works. Unless new Covid rules have changed this.

The club should be able to get off if it appoints a good lawyer to represent it.

Exactly. It's just an investigation because of comments made before the Mansfield game. Hopefully no wrongdoing has happened.

[Thor]

some good posts on this thread.

I've just listened to the Orient hour which was prior to us being kicked out. Danny was speaking on the phone and he said that the players whilst they have tested positive did not show or display any symptoms. That says to me that the positive tests were asymptomatic. If that's the case how would the medical people know or indeed have any suspicions that covid was in the club?

The medical team are taking a kicking but based on what Danny said is that fair?

[tuffers#1]

Plus the 2 players who showed as symptomatic on the Friday were sent home immediately & did not partake on
Saturday As was clearly stated by Ross on the Q & A

[Max B Gold]

If this is true. Orient are authors of their own misfortune by breaking the rules.

If people want to avoid punishments then don't break the rules.

The blame attaches to whoever if anyone is responsible for breaking the rules.

It has not been proven that any rules have been broken. Believe the club is Innocent until proven guilty is how it works. Unless new Covid rules have changed this.

The club should be able to get off if it appoints a good lawyer to represent it.

Exactly. It's just an investigation because of comments made before the Mansfield game. Hopefully no wrongdoing has happened.

Indeed. If everyone involved gets together and gets the story straight and sticks to it we should be fine.

[BiggsyMalone]

Plus the 2 players who showed as symptomatic on the Friday were sent home immediately & did not partake on
Saturday As was clearly stated by Ross on the Q & A

Presumably they were around the rest of the team the rest of the week though

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

You sure you want us to be cleared of any wrongdoing?

[OyinbO]

Evidently, different people at the Club have already given different accounts in public. And they also don’t match some of the things I’ve been hearing either.

Nige isn’t daft. He’s not going to spend money in challenging the charge, though he may challenge the punishment if it seems unreasonable (which it might)

[BoniO]

Whatever the outcome of any inquiry, and whether it's just or not, there needs to be a level playing field for all EFL clubs. It has been suggested by one owner that weekly tests are needed, for all clubs.

In the current scenario, where many clubs are likely to go out of business if the "behind closed doors" situation continues into the new year, then it is unlikely that all clubs (most?) could afford weekly testing. The EFL needs to consider where funding for these tests should come from. The FA needs to be part of this discussion too or we may end up with just the PL left. What a depressing scenario that would be.

[tuffers#1]

Plus the 2 players who showed as symptomatic on the Friday were sent home immediately & did not partake on
Saturday As was clearly stated by Ross on the Q & A

Presumably they were around the rest of the team the rest of the week though

If they were not showing symptoms its irrelevant .

Test if you have symptoms ( new cough, high temp , or loss of smell & taste)
Dont test if they are not showing symptoms
Isnt that current government policy ?

Now stop your whattaboutery please.

[Ornchurch]

They can get to f***.

What protocols did the club break?

Imagine it's along the same lines as the rest of the population if you're demonstrating symptoms - isolate and get tested - but with some kind of teeth so that clubs don't do what we've done and press ahead anyway.

There is a perverse advantage to the bulk of our squad getting it in one hit early in the season, assuming that they all recover ok. Reduces the likelihood of this happening over and over again so we avoid fixture congestion later in the season. Really though, this incident is just underlining how impossible this season will be to complete. It's basically a write off and I'd take survival, both as a league team and a functioning club, in a heartbeat.

I wasn’t aware that the players were showing Covid symptoms, I thought they’d said it was just a bug ( I haven’t listened to the interviews or Q and A stuff).

If we had a squad of players with the sweats, consistently coughing and unable to smell or taste and we ignored that, then fair enough.

This is exactly the point.

The graphics have indicated that no temperature, no cough and congestion suggest a cold rather than COVID and no need to test. Too many people are jumping to conclusions.

At the very least now the EFL should insist on all clubs being tested before any more games are played.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Evidently, different people at the Club have already given different accounts in public. And they also don’t match some of the things I’ve been hearing either.

No need to go all R***r about it.

[Story of O]

The one thing that stands out is that no-one on here knows the full facts. Let's just see what happens.