Coronavirus

[Currywurst and Chips]

It is interesting how people suddenly become right wing authoritarian types just in order to attack the government.

[Ornchurch]

Shop/transport workers don't want the grief and if all you have to do when challenged is say "I'm exempt" then enforcement becomes impossible

So, as per other Countries, you make exempt people carry a card to prove this. Nothing impossible about enforcing rules, only needs a will to do so.

I agree but how many will hide behind Human Rights?

[Sid Bishop]

Strict enforcement would not bother me one bit and i would comply with it, as I do now, others might well see things differently and in some cases could well act in a violent manner if challenged.

[Ornchurch]

Which is why the RULES need enforcing.

Who by?

Police, council, security guards, I don't care.

Any shop could say no mask no entry/service but they only care about their bottom line.

Agree but if every supermarket had a plod presence how many would start moaning about non appropriate use of resources?

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Will do if you provide the evidence that raves and BLM marches are to blame. I've offered you reasons which logically make sense as to why infection rates might rise. You've said that BLM marches which mainly happened 2/3 months ago are to blame. I know which one of us looks silly.

I get it, you have a dogma about certain groups of people. It's fine. Stop passing it off as fact though.

What have I passed off as fact? I clearly said above "I think..." and "it's a matter of opinion". In the absence of hard evidence, much of this is opinion.

I don't actually believe the BLM marches anything to do with the current rise (I knew it would be picked up and focused on though). I do believe, as I said, that a significant factor is the behaviour of certain groups of mainly younger people (ie < 40) and not specifically to do with people going back to work or restaurants opening. Pubs perhaps, if they don't follow distancing guidelines and encourage close contact but the ones I've been to seem to be acting in a responsible way, though I've heard of others that are not.

It's strange that your opinions (as you've presented no evidence) "logically make sense"- but mine are silly.

oh right, so you DONT think BLM marches were to blame, after I pointed out your logic was flawed?

Again, i'm not saying my opinions are facts but you've asked why i think that they are reasons as to an increase in infections. To me, it makes logical sense that you get more people into bars and restaurants and commuting for hours on trains the infection rate goes up - not exactly a revelation.

All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason. Again, fine, but dont feel attacked if you're pulled up on your logic and then cant provide any sort of reason aside from the fact that you just believe young people dancing in a field in wales has caused 3000 infections a day. It comes across as lazy, biased and like you have an agenda. I'm sure you aren't any of those things...

[spen666]

Bizarre opinion. Rules need enforcement if people don't obey them, which they don't.

So blame the people not obeying the rules. They are the cause of the problem

[BoniO]

It is interesting how people suddenly become right wing authoritarian types just in order to attack the government.

Almost as interesting how some people accuse those who demonstrate the governments pathetic handling of lockdown rules, and then propose viable solutions, as becoming right wing authoritarian types.

PS - when I said interesting, I meant really stupid.

[tuffers#1]

Oh to be so politically correct all the time

Some could have taken it from here, infected people out there, who then brought it back and infected people here.
Either way it would seem that more people have come back with it than went out with it hence the rise in cases here.

Those Islands were pretty much free of it, like we were before our lockdown was ended .
We started socialising pubs gatherings etc of course its more likely it came from tourists visiting them

All of their tourists came from the UK then?

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/tr ... 69661.html
Evening Standard
20 greek islands to visit.

Look at the list to see the cross over .

At the Beginning of the article
" with greece listed as an exemption "..

Im sure other tourists travelled from other countries too

If you read your original post i responded to ,
Im agreeing with you.

[faldO]

All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

Gutted, I haven’t been invited to a single one

[Currywurst and Chips]

It is interesting how people suddenly become right wing authoritarian types just in order to attack the government.

Almost as interesting how some people accuse those who demonstrate the governments pathetic handling of lockdown rules, and then propose viable solutions, as becoming right wing authoritarian types.

PS - when I said interesting, I meant really stupid.

I know you're butt hurt but you literally said Boris should declare a state of emergency so he could bypass parliament on this thread and now you're advocating French style policing which is far more authoritarian than UK tactics of explain, encourage, engage

[BoniO]

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

But London doesn't appear to be facing large increases in infection does it?

[Rich Tea Wellin]

All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

ok mate, it was raves and BLM marches in june

[BoniO]

It is interesting how people suddenly become right wing authoritarian types just in order to attack the government.

Almost as interesting how some people accuse those who demonstrate the governments pathetic handling of lockdown rules, and then propose viable solutions, as becoming right wing authoritarian types.

PS - when I said interesting, I meant really stupid.

I know you're butt hurt but you literally said Boris should declare a state of emergency so he could bypass parliament on this thread and now you're advocating French style policing which is far more authoritarian than UK tactics of explain, encourage, engage

Yeah, because the UK tactics are really working........

Still, at least the horse racing at Doncaster is happening. Phew, that's good news. I'm sure Dido Harding, Chair of the new National Institute for Health Protection, and Board member of the Jockey Club, will be well pleased we put off the new restrictions until next Monday.

[Ornchurch]

All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

Wasting your time.

Any mention of illegal raves, parties and gathering of young people is being interpreted as an attack on BAME by the usual suspects.
If you said that it was down to rise in the number of Gammons meeting at their Gentlemens Clubs they'd probably be right behind you.

[tuffers#1]

All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

24th of July article .

September post by FaLDo

" 500 raves in the last month ".

Anyone care to explain it to him ?

[Mistadobalina]

Is anyone on here abiding by the government rules to the letter of the law? It'd mean you haven't been round to someone else's house and had a third household present, it would mean you haven't met more than 6 people outside at any point in the last 3 months. The inconsistency of saying we want people to return to normal economic life but not normal social life is so obviously absurd.

There's a lot of moralising about this, but everyone is taking calculated risks all the time, seemingly in every country judging by the resurgence being experienced across countries that had 'beaten' the virus. What was needed and has always been needed is efficient testing and then good contact tracing. We have neither.

[Long slender neck]

Bizarre opinion. Rules need enforcement if people don't obey them, which they don't.

So blame the people not obeying the rules. They are the cause of the problem

I blame both

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Is anyone on here abiding by the government rules to the letter of the law? It'd mean you haven't been round to someone else's house and had a third household present, it would mean you haven't met more than 6 people outside at any point in the last 3 months. The inconsistency of saying we want people to return to normal economic life but not normal social life is so obviously absurd.

There's a lot of moralising about this, but everyone is taking calculated risks all the time, seemingly in every country judging by the resurgence being experienced across countries that had 'beaten' the virus. What was needed and has always been needed is efficient testing and then good contact tracing. We have neither.

Exactly.

And let's be completely honest. The 'rules' are completely unclear and dont make sense in a lot of cases. i didnt know the rules to the letter before these changes.

And i have no doubt that it's on purpose. The government have made no secret of their desire for herd immunity. They also want people to be out there, making money, spending money and propping up big business thats now struggling. The whole thing has been a PR nightmare and mixed messaging from day one and it's by design.

[faldO]

All you've done, over about 4 posts is say that behaviour of young people by going to raves (i've heard of 2 or 3 of these happening) and BLM marches is the reason.

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

24th of July article .

September post by FaLDo

" 500 raves in the last month ".

Anyone care to explain it to him ?

I was simply pointing out that there had been more than 2 or 3 illegal raves as that's all that Apple Wumble had heard of and he thinks it's just some young people dancing in a field in Wales.

I've googled some other more recent ones for you.

House parties and raves blamed on spike for coronavirus infections in Leeds
https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/05/house-pa ... -13227841/

Police crack down on illegal raves ahead of introduction of £10k fine
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... f-10k-fine

A more general one, admittedly a bit older:

Coronavirus: Inside the secret Covid rave scene


FWIW I'm not specifically picking on illegal raves and parties, or young people, and I don't actually care much whether they take place except when they impact on local communities and require resources like the police and ambulances to deal with. I think young people should be out enjoying themselves and I think the risk to them from covid is generally fairly minimal.

With hindsight I regret even mentioning them and BLM - I should have realised it would be like a red rag to a bull. It has detracted from the point I was trying to make which was that I don't believe the current significant rise in infections mainly in young people is due to people going back to work or people travelling on trains or restaurants/pubs opening (except where they do not follow guidelines/recommendations).

[Mick McQuaid]

The risk of catching any virus outdoors is categorically and significantly lower than any indoor activity. The more time you spend in that enclosed environment with the same people the higher the risk. I know some people get their blue rinse in a tizz over the very idea or a rave (which now seems to be defined by plod as 10 people and an ipod). but they are almost certainly safer than quaffing a bottle of chardonnay with Jules and Soph in the slug and ass munch

Anyone who thinks their workplace is covid secure because their boss has stuck a couple of stickers and a perspex screen by your desk is deluded. If you're sharing a space with others and one is infected, you'll almost certainly get it. If you are on the beach or in the park you almost certainly won't even if you're sitting right next to someone who is infected.

Young people might be more likely to be going out socialising (terribly irresponsible when they've been actively encouraged to do so by their government) but they are also far more likely to be doing the kind of job where they can't work from home, which is probably more relevant to the routes of infection.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

You are very selective in what you choose to highlight and obviously don't read the news.

More than 500 illegal raves erupted across London in the past month, Scotland Yard has revealed.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/i ... 07801.html

And your "logic" that people of all ages sitting in restaurants or returning to work - in the main socially distanced - are the primary cause of a significant rise in infections amongst predominantly younger people is perplexing.

24th of July article .

September post by FaLDo

" 500 raves in the last month ".

Anyone care to explain it to him ?

I was simply pointing out that there had been more than 2 or 3 illegal raves as that's all that Apple Wumble had heard of and he thinks it's just some young people dancing in a field in Wales.

I've googled some other more recent ones for you.

House parties and raves blamed on spike for coronavirus infections in Leeds
https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/05/house-pa ... -13227841/

Police crack down on illegal raves ahead of introduction of £10k fine
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... f-10k-fine

A more general one, admittedly a bit older:

Coronavirus: Inside the secret Covid rave scene


FWIW I'm not specifically picking on illegal raves and parties, or young people, and I don't actually care much whether they take place except when they impact on local communities and require resources like the police and ambulances to deal with. I think young people should be out enjoying themselves and I think the risk to them from covid is generally fairly minimal.

With hindsight I regret even mentioning them and BLM - I should have realised it would be like a red rag to a bull. It has detracted from the point I was trying to make which was that I don't believe the current significant rise in infections mainly in young people is due to people going back to work or people travelling on trains or restaurants/pubs opening (except where they do not follow guidelines/recommendations).

Glad you've realised your BLM and Rave 'point' was misguided

[tuffers#1]

Its about time people who post press articles read the dates of the articles &
Just posted relevant stuff 1st time around .

I know we're in a world of FAKE NEWS ,
but lets not dissapear into the realms
Of BULL SH*T NEWS PLEASE !

[Rich Tea Wellin]

Just the utter audacity of these utter fannies in charge to introduce eat out to help out, to boost the economy and then to blame some of the same people for going out and spreading corona. Will they own anything, ever?

[spen666]

.. . I know some people get their blue rinse in a tizz over the very idea or a rave (which now seems to be defined by plod as 10 people and an ipod). ....

There is actually in English Law a written definition of what is a rave.

S63 of the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 is your friend.


Can you imagine the debates in Parliament over the definition