Ornchurch wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:57 am
If the politicians had got on with what?
Referendum June 2016. Left the EU Jan 2020. Wasted months of party politics and MPs being obstructive rather than acting on the result.
A cross party group should have got on with from Jan 2017 at the latest to act on the decision of the nation.
Firstly, irrrespective of whatever way you want to spin it, it was the decision of SOME of the Nation; NOT THE Nation; as you have quite incorrectly alluded to.
Many of course that voted for Brexit ard now pushing up the daisies; so this entire clusterf**k, that they helped to create, isn't even going to affect them.
I'm confused why you state Jan 2017; Theresa May didn't declare our withdrawal, by invoking Article 50 until 29th March 2017; so I'm not quite sure what progress could have been made at any time before that date; with a cross-party group or otherwise. We were subsequently due to leave by 29th March 2019. How did that go again?
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Thor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:20 pm
Glad to see the party of law and order deliver once more with a tough sentanence for the brother of the Manchester bomber 55 years behind bars.
Good riddance to bad scum.
RIP all those that suffered at his and his brothers hands.
What are your thoughts on Bestival conviction of manslaughter
Being overturned thory ?
Thor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:20 pm
Glad to see the party of law and order deliver once more with a tough sentanence for the brother of the Manchester bomber 55 years behind bars.
Good riddance to bad scum.
RIP all those that suffered at his and his brothers hands.
Shame they were a lot more relaxed to the various terrorists they let out of prison before they killed people.
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:57 am
If the politicians had got on with what?
Referendum June 2016. Left the EU Jan 2020. Wasted months of party politics and MPs being obstructive rather than acting on the result.
A cross party group should have got on with from Jan 2017 at the latest to act on the decision of the nation.
Firstly, irrrespective of whatever way you want to spin it, it was the decision of SOME of the Nation; NOT THE Nation; as you have quite incorrectly alluded to.
Many of course that voted for Brexit ard now pushing up the daisies; so this entire clusterf**k, that they helped to create, isn't even going to affect them.
I'm confused why you state Jan 2017; Theresa May didn't declare our withdrawal, by invoking Article 50 until 29th March 2017; so I'm not quite sure what progress could have been made at any time before that date; with a cross-party group or otherwise. We were subsequently due to leave by 29th March 2019. How did that go again?
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge." - I don't think there's much doubt who actually was in charge tbh. This shambles is a 100% Tory f*ckfest of monumental proportions. I'm pretty sure it's not Corbyn's fault.......
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:57 am
If the politicians had got on with what?
Referendum June 2016. Left the EU Jan 2020. Wasted months of party politics and MPs being obstructive rather than acting on the result.
A cross party group should have got on with from Jan 2017 at the latest to act on the decision of the nation.
Firstly, irrrespective of whatever way you want to spin it, it was the decision of SOME of the Nation; NOT THE Nation; as you have quite incorrectly alluded to.
Many of course that voted for Brexit ard now pushing up the daisies; so this entire clusterf**k, that they helped to create, isn't even going to affect them.
I'm confused why you state Jan 2017; Theresa May didn't declare our withdrawal, by invoking Article 50 until 29th March 2017; so I'm not quite sure what progress could have been made at any time before that date; with a cross-party group or otherwise. We were subsequently due to leave by 29th March 2019. How did that go again?
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
No, No, No, No, No!
That simply won't do dear chap!!
That's just Thor-like swervery' and it simply won't do!!!
Your response truly has the depth of a grain of sand.
You stated that 'cross-party politicians' should have "got on with it".
You haven't explained why all political parties should have helped; in particular, the points I've made about The Labour Party.
You've also swerved what exactly it was that politicians 'should have been getting on with' - and why things didn't quite go as swimmingly as planned.
Must try harder!
I await your in-depth, meaningful response; rather than your pointless 'we won, get over it' rhetoric.
Firstly, irrrespective of whatever way you want to spin it, it was the decision of SOME of the Nation; NOT THE Nation; as you have quite incorrectly alluded to.
Many of course that voted for Brexit ard now pushing up the daisies; so this entire clusterf**k, that they helped to create, isn't even going to affect them.
I'm confused why you state Jan 2017; Theresa May didn't declare our withdrawal, by invoking Article 50 until 29th March 2017; so I'm not quite sure what progress could have been made at any time before that date; with a cross-party group or otherwise. We were subsequently due to leave by 29th March 2019. How did that go again?
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge." - I don't think there's much doubt who actually was in charge tbh. This shambles is a 100% Tory f*ckfest of monumental proportions. I'm pretty sure it's not Corbyn's fault.......
It was the fault of all the MPs of all parties that were more interested in delaying and attempting to overturn a democratic vote than seeing it implemented.
Firstly, irrrespective of whatever way you want to spin it, it was the decision of SOME of the Nation; NOT THE Nation; as you have quite incorrectly alluded to.
Many of course that voted for Brexit ard now pushing up the daisies; so this entire clusterf**k, that they helped to create, isn't even going to affect them.
I'm confused why you state Jan 2017; Theresa May didn't declare our withdrawal, by invoking Article 50 until 29th March 2017; so I'm not quite sure what progress could have been made at any time before that date; with a cross-party group or otherwise. We were subsequently due to leave by 29th March 2019. How did that go again?
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
No, No, No, No, No!
That simply won't do dear chap!!
That's just Thor-like swervery' and it simply won't do!!!
Your response truly has the depth of a grain of sand.
You stated that 'cross-party politicians' should have "got on with it".
You haven't explained why all political parties should have helped; in particular, the points I've made about The Labour Party.
You've also swerved what exactly it was that politicians 'should have been getting on with' - and why things didn't quite go as swimmingly as planned.
Must try harder!
I await your in-depth, meaningful response; rather than your pointless 'we won, get over it' rhetoric.
There's a willful denial by those that voted for Brexit of the nature of democracy. Democracy is not that we get a vote and then the winner takes all and the defeated shut the hell up and accept the outcome even if it adversely affects them. They are guaranteed the right of protest, delay and if possible revocation. Just imagine the party of your nightmares became the government and began to undermine your freedoms and increase your burdens and obligations. Would you (a) accept that you were on the losing side, even if it was theoretically 49.9% vs 50.1 or (b) do everything in your power, in collaboration with others duly affected, to protest (i.e - raise awareness of your dissent), delay and if possible revoke?
If you answered B then you're a hypocrite and if you answered A you're a liar.
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
No, No, No, No, No!
That simply won't do dear chap!!
That's just Thor-like swervery' and it simply won't do!!!
Your response truly has the depth of a grain of sand.
You stated that 'cross-party politicians' should have "got on with it".
You haven't explained why all political parties should have helped; in particular, the points I've made about The Labour Party.
You've also swerved what exactly it was that politicians 'should have been getting on with' - and why things didn't quite go as swimmingly as planned.
Must try harder!
I await your in-depth, meaningful response; rather than your pointless 'we won, get over it' rhetoric.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Dear oh dear.
Both 'the algorithm' and your course tutor have awarded you with a non-grade U.
School report: "Since showing promise since passing his Eleven-Plus, Ornchurch appears to lack enthusiasm at times; retreating into his shell whenever difficult questions are asked. A likeable lad.....but seems to Zzzzzzzz far too much. Must try harder, if he is to fulfil his potential"
Ornchurch wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:57 am
If the politicians had got on with what?
Referendum June 2016. Left the EU Jan 2020. Wasted months of party politics and MPs being obstructive rather than acting on the result.
A cross party group should have got on with from Jan 2017 at the latest to act on the decision of the nation.
Firstly, irrrespective of whatever way you want to spin it, it was the decision of SOME of the Nation; NOT THE Nation; as you have quite incorrectly alluded to.
Many of course that voted for Brexit ard now pushing up the daisies; so this entire clusterf**k, that they helped to create, isn't even going to affect them.
I'm confused why you state Jan 2017; Theresa May didn't declare our withdrawal, by invoking Article 50 until 29th March 2017; so I'm not quite sure what progress could have been made at any time before that date; with a cross-party group or otherwise. We were subsequently due to leave by 29th March 2019. How did that go again?
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
In a nice bit of irony, 52% of the electorate voted for parties who either advocated a second referendum or outright cancelling article 50.
Johnson's government is doing exactly what I worried a government would following the referendum, invoking the will of the people as a pretext to hoard power and taken on all liberal (in the classic sense) institutions that provide checks on that hoarding. They want a reversion to the elected dictatorship they associate with Britain's glory days. Obviously that is extremely undesirable in itself, but it's made all the worse when it's a bunch of actual f*cking idiots hoarding the power.
Those liberal institutions are essential to a properly functioning democracy. I'd be disgusted if Labour tried to destroy them as well, this isn't a left Vs right thing.
NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:59 pm
No, No, No, No, No!
That simply won't do dear chap!!
That's just Thor-like swervery' and it simply won't do!!!
Your response truly has the depth of a grain of sand.
You stated that 'cross-party politicians' should have "got on with it".
You haven't explained why all political parties should have helped; in particular, the points I've made about The Labour Party.
You've also swerved what exactly it was that politicians 'should have been getting on with' - and why things didn't quite go as swimmingly as planned.
Must try harder!
I await your in-depth, meaningful response; rather than your pointless 'we won, get over it' rhetoric.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Dear oh dear.
Both 'the algorithm' and your course tutor have awarded you with a non-grade U.
School report: "Since showing promise since passing his Eleven-Plus, Ornchurch appears to lack enthusiasm at times; retreating into his shell whenever difficult questions are asked. A likeable lad.....but seems to Zzzzzzzz far too much. Must try harder, if he is to fulfil his potential"
Moving to Oz as a teacher?
Well suited for it being a leftie and a Guardian reader. Bet you even have elbow patches on your corduroy jacket.
Thor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:20 pm
Glad to see the party of law and order deliver once more with a tough sentanence for the brother of the Manchester bomber 55 years behind bars.
Good riddance to bad scum.
RIP all those that suffered at his and his brothers hands.
Shame they were a lot more relaxed to the various terrorists they let out of prison before they killed people.
Firstly, irrrespective of whatever way you want to spin it, it was the decision of SOME of the Nation; NOT THE Nation; as you have quite incorrectly alluded to.
Many of course that voted for Brexit ard now pushing up the daisies; so this entire clusterf**k, that they helped to create, isn't even going to affect them.
I'm confused why you state Jan 2017; Theresa May didn't declare our withdrawal, by invoking Article 50 until 29th March 2017; so I'm not quite sure what progress could have been made at any time before that date; with a cross-party group or otherwise. We were subsequently due to leave by 29th March 2019. How did that go again?
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
In a nice bit of irony, 52% of the electorate voted for parties who either advocated a second referendum or outright cancelling article 50.
Johnson's government is doing exactly what I worried a government would following the referendum, invoking the will of the people as a pretext to hoard power and taken on all liberal (in the classic sense) institutions that provide checks on that hoarding. They want a reversion to the elected dictatorship they associate with Britain's glory days. Obviously that is extremely undesirable in itself, but it's made all the worse when it's a bunch of actual f*cking idiots hoarding the power.
Those liberal institutions are essential to a properly functioning democracy. I'd be disgusted if Labour tried to destroy them as well, this isn't a left Vs right thing.
I'd suggest that the last elective dictatorship was under Blair. Would you agree?
NuneatonO's wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:16 am If the politicians had got on with what?
What have they been getting on with?
What did David Davis achieve in his two years as Brexit Secretary?
Or Dominic Raab - who dropped it like a hot potato after four months?
What about Stephen Barclay - during his tenure of almost 15 months?
Do you mean to tell me that these highly paid, Tory Ministers achieved zilch? Not very good, is it.
How many extensions have we been kindly granted by the EU?
When will the UK actually be in a position to explain to the EU what it actually wants?
Is the border issue of checks between Ireland/UK even resolved yet?
How many WTO deals have we got in place? I think we've got deals with The Faroe Islands and Kosovo in place; so no need to panic I suppose.
The good old No Deal scenario, eh? The UK's economic saviour. Undertaking trade with the EU, under WTO rules; whereby tariffs would be applied to most goods which UK businesses send to the EU. This would make UK goods more expensive and harder to sell in Europe; but let's not worry about the finer points of detail.
Obviously, WTO terms would also mean full border checks for goods; which will cause traffic bottlenecks at ports and lead to significant delays. Still.......we've got the overspill lorry parks lined up - so it won't be a problem, will it.
Altogether, wave your Union Jacks and sing along with me Tory Boys - "there'll always be an England"...........
I really don’t think I can take much more of this government. They are completely doing my head in.
If only we could have known how they’d behave, eh.
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
In a nice bit of irony, 52% of the electorate voted for parties who either advocated a second referendum or outright cancelling article 50.
Johnson's government is doing exactly what I worried a government would following the referendum, invoking the will of the people as a pretext to hoard power and taken on all liberal (in the classic sense) institutions that provide checks on that hoarding. They want a reversion to the elected dictatorship they associate with Britain's glory days. Obviously that is extremely undesirable in itself, but it's made all the worse when it's a bunch of actual f*cking idiots hoarding the power.
Those liberal institutions are essential to a properly functioning democracy. I'd be disgusted if Labour tried to destroy them as well, this isn't a left Vs right thing.
I'd suggest that the last elective dictatorship was under Blair. Would you agree?
Howzat then thorY boy
Hope Florence is looking after ya well still
The Nation voted by majority for Brexit. That's democracy.
The landslide GE result would suggest that many who did not vote for Brexit at the referendum indirectly did so in what was effectively a second vote last December so not sure how many have passed since then.
Lastly, although Article 50 was invoked in March 2017, there should have been people working on Brexit in advance. It's called preparation. To exit the EU 3 and a half years after the vote was disgraceful, whoever was in charge.
As for the rest of your post; zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
In a nice bit of irony, 52% of the electorate voted for parties who either advocated a second referendum or outright cancelling article 50.
Johnson's government is doing exactly what I worried a government would following the referendum, invoking the will of the people as a pretext to hoard power and taken on all liberal (in the classic sense) institutions that provide checks on that hoarding. They want a reversion to the elected dictatorship they associate with Britain's glory days. Obviously that is extremely undesirable in itself, but it's made all the worse when it's a bunch of actual f*cking idiots hoarding the power.
Those liberal institutions are essential to a properly functioning democracy. I'd be disgusted if Labour tried to destroy them as well, this isn't a left Vs right thing.
I'd suggest that the last elective dictatorship was under Blair. Would you agree?
Yes and no. He ran government in a presidential style but actively strengthened institutions that checked the power of the executive. Devolution to Scotland and Wales (as well as the failed ne England assembly), good Friday agreement, supreme court, regional planning, various EU treaties, minor HoL reform, independence of Bank of England. Didn't go anywhere near far enough imo, I think the over centralisation of power and absence of meaningful checks and balances are the biggest problem this country has and why I think Brexit is such a terrible idea.
's
