Os return to training. (except Ruel Sotiriou)

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

What should we have offered a player who had never started a game for us at the time?

Some game time?

Which we did

Not in November, we didn't. Nor the months before. All while Alabi was sitting on the bench, wasting a space.

[PoliticOs]

Or, 'filling a space' to allow Sotiriou to go out and actually play games and build some confidence and sharpness before being introduced ready to go and fire on all cylinders. Which he did.

Course Ruel could have been on the bench then, maybe played, maybe done really well and that would have been great. But the fact is he went out and played a few games then came back in and hit the ground running. So we know the way we managed him WAS successful, the only question was would it have been MORE successful playing him from November? We'll never know.

[Mistadobalina]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

It's more than a month or two though, it goes back into the previous season.

[PoliticOs]

Think you're being so harsh on Ruel, assuming he is petulant and unable to earn his place. Don't think that's fair on him RedO.

[Millennial Snowflake]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

It's more than a month or two though, it goes back into the previous season.

Obviously JE and Ross didn’t feel Ruel was quite ready as a 17/18 year old to feature heavily in the first-team squad of a side trying to get promoted

Alabi had recently had his best season ever when we signed him by the way

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Think you're being so harsh on Ruel, assuming he is petulant and unable to earn his place. Don't think that's fair on him RedO.

[Mistadobalina]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

It's more than a month or two though, it goes back into the previous season.

You're reaching. Putting a small kid into a promotion push when Alabi, for all his shortcomings, at least could offer something different and vaguely effective at that level, would have been mad. He would've ended up with 20+ appearances as a 19 year old in a breakthrough season had it not been for Covid, that's pretty good going.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

It's more than a month or two though, it goes back into the previous season.

You're reaching. Putting a small kid into a promotion push when Alabi, for all his shortcomings, at least could offer something different and vaguely effective at that level, would have been mad. He would've ended up with 20+ appearances as a 19 year old in a breakthrough season had it not been for Covid, that's pretty good going.

I understand your point but I fail to believe that Ruel couldn't have brought more than Alabi. He may not have shined but I'd have backed him to get more than 2 goals all season and he couldn't have lost the ball more often.

[Ornchurch]

A 17/18 year old could be crushed by playing first team football too early and struggle to recover whereas an older, more experienced player is more able to cope with the physical and mental demands, especially in a division like the NL.

It is a tough call on when to give a youngster their chance, and the only way to truly know is to play the,, but you have to trust the people who see him every day to make the call.

[Ornchurch]

Look at Ngakia at West Ham. Pulled from the Academy to play because of injuries, made 6 appearances and walked off on 30th June out of contract refusing all offers of a new one. What better chance to play PL football at 18 but obviously feels that the grass and money is greener elsewhere. It happens.

[tuffers#1]

Fucks sake, even Davis included him in the match day squads back in 2017.

So Davis was a better man than JE ?

Clearly not.

But Justin didn’t look after the younger prospects as well as he could have.

So what is your point ?

[DuvB]

A 17/18 year old could be crushed by playing first team football too early and struggle to recover whereas an older, more experienced player is more able to cope with the physical and mental demands, especially in a division like the NL.

It is a tough call on when to give a youngster their chance, and the only way to truly know is to play the,, but you have to trust the people who see him every day to make the call.

Agreed

[DuvB]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

But your reasoned post is not going to stop the usual
suspects blaming Embleton and Ling.

[Disoriented]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

But your reasoned post is not going to stop the usual
suspects blaming Embleton and Ling.

Relentless.

[DuvB]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

But your reasoned post is not going to stop the usual
suspects blaming Embleton and Ling.

Relentless.

The truth hurts.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Or, 'filling a space' to allow Sotiriou to go out and actually play games and build some confidence and sharpness before being introduced ready to go and fire on all cylinders. Which he did.

Course Ruel could have been on the bench then, maybe played, maybe done really well and that would have been great. But the fact is he went out and played a few games then came back in and hit the ground running. So we know the way we managed him WAS successful, the only question was would it have been MORE successful playing him from November? We'll never know.

The way Fletcher handled him, you mean.

Of course we’ll never know if he would have been more successful if he’d been given a chance earlier. But it was pretty clear he was more than ready when we finally did give him a chance.

We’ll also never know if he’d have had more affinity to the club if he’d picked up a National League winners medal last season and played some games for us before December 2019.

[PoliticOs]

Yep I completely include Fletcher in that! And Embleton, Davis, Ling and Edinburgh whom all arranged his previous loans. Good to see them have the confidence to give him time to mature as a footballer.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

The way he was introduced into the team seemed pretty standard for a 19 year old. Loan him out at a lower level to get some experience, then phase him in through substitute appearances and then start him if warranted. He's still incredibly young and I really doubt that month or two of being behind Alabi in the pecking order is the reason why he looks to be going.

It's more than a month or two though, it goes back into the previous season.

You're reaching. Putting a small kid into a promotion push when Alabi, for all his shortcomings, at least could offer something different and vaguely effective at that level, would have been mad. He would've ended up with 20+ appearances as a 19 year old in a breakthrough season had it not been for Covid, that's pretty good going.

I agree with some aspects of that. Indeed, when we had a striker shortage back in the winter of 2018/19 and some were calling for Ruel to be thrown in, I was saying it wasn’t the right time. He needed proper handling, a gentle and careful introduction into our first team.

Instead what happened was he was overlooked and kept out of the match day squad by James Alabi, thankfully put out on loan by Fletcher to get some game time, then when he started scoring for fun brought back straight into our first team by a desperate Embleton, and played out on the wing.

The bits I vehemently disagree with are that James Alabi was ever vaguely effective, he wasn’t, he was a joke of a footballer at National league level. And that Ruel was a small kid, he wasn’t, I remember seeing him knocking senior pros about back in 2017 during his cameo appearances.

We haven’t handled his development well at all.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

Yep I completely include Fletcher in that! And Embleton, Davis, Ling and Edinburgh whom all arranged his previous loans. Good to see them have the confidence to give him time to mature as a footballer.

Davis was the one who did stick him in the squad and gave him some experience at that level. The others didn’t.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

A 17/18 year old could be crushed by playing first team football too early and struggle to recover whereas an older, more experienced player is more able to cope with the physical and mental demands, especially in a division like the NL.

It is a tough call on when to give a youngster their chance, and the only way to truly know is to play the,, but you have to trust the people who see him every day to make the call.

Of course.

I think we have erred on the side of caution with these youngsters for the past few years.

[PoliticOs]

Yep I completely include Fletcher in that! And Embleton, Davis, Ling and Edinburgh whom all arranged his previous loans. Good to see them have the confidence to give him time to mature as a footballer.

Davis was the one who did stick him in the squad and gave him some experience at that level. The others didn’t.

Exactly! Well done to Davis and Ling on that one. And Embleton obviously for his work with him day to day, and who brought him back into the first team for his first caretaker spell after Davis. And to Edinburgh who was manager for all of his successful loans. Really good all round!

[Thor]

I think coyos has been shouting for him the longest on this board. I did say and I will say I do beleive that the club handled his development this past season rather well. I agreed with him going out on loan and not to be chucked in the first team and I said so at the time. I also said he could do with another loan or longer loan at Dover in which to aid his development further. I could see how good he was going to be given the right handling. This I can’t knock the club on to be fair.

It was probably around this time that the first contract offer was made to him and dare I suggest it was probably a low offer, not low verses value, just low as against his position in the clubs pecking order. That probably was the beginning of the seed being sowed to move however, I doubt they (player and agent) realised the impact he would have in that spell when he got in the team. Now his value increases as does his demands, he now holds all the cards and has continued to play them to his advantage.

[tuffers#1]

A 17/18 year old could be crushed by playing first team football too early and struggle to recover whereas an older, more experienced player is more able to cope with the physical and mental demands, especially in a division like the NL.

It is a tough call on when to give a youngster their chance, and the only way to truly know is to play the,, but you have to trust the people who see him every day to make the call.

Of course.

I think we have erred on the side of caution with these youngsters for the past few years.

Well after the battering the kids took the season we
were relgated from league football , it is only fair we let the youth team develop naturally.

Unless they are an outstanding talent like a Rooney or a Laurie Cunningham
who didnt start many games in his 1st season , bring them in Slowly.

[Adz]

Look at Ngakia at West Ham. Pulled from the Academy to play because of injuries, made 6 appearances and walked off on 30th June out of contract refusing all offers of a new one. What better chance to play PL football at 18 but obviously feels that the grass and money is greener elsewhere. It happens.

Or it could be that he'd rather be unemployed than play under moyes!