Tory Watch

[Disoriented]

Robert Jenrick ducks Commons question on planning intervention
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rd-desmond

This is disgraceful conduct from a Front-bench Minister.

A privileged, smug, lying , pompous tw*t. Typical of your average Tory, I suppose.

The current breed of far right Tory has utter contempt for democracy.

Evidenced by suspending parliament, avoiding accountability in parliament and refusing to appear on C4 and Newsnight. The list is endless.

They are corrupt to the core.

Should be jailed.

Immediately.

[Millennial Snowflake]

I have just been told that i am back to work on the 5th July and i cant wait. When i go back i face the prospect of redundancy as 200 (25%) of workers are being let go due to the virus. Those that remain have been told to accept a 15% pay reduction. When people say things will be ok in two or three months if we stay at home they are deluded. Buisinesses are falling by the wayside now and thousands are losing thier jobs for a lot of people the spring, summer and autumn is there prime time and being closed will cost them dearly.
When i was furloughed like many others on 80% pay i was worried but i have found that i am actually no worse off as i have saved on fuel,travel expenses and other costs inccured whilst working. IF people were to be honest the furlough scheme has been like being on a paid holiday with the added bonus of three months beautiful weather. And NO i dont have a garden to enjoy the sunshine i live in a apartment looking out onto a car park on oneside and a main road on the other. I know about all the risks involved as my job puts me at risk but the longer we stay home the worst for everyones health and mindset. If we stay off work for a never ending period then godhelp the hundreds and thousands out of work.I'm older than you Max as you said you were a kid during the seventies, whereas i was starting work at 15 in the print 8 to 6 five days a week take home £7.90. I also worked for a Authority and was on the winter of discontent strike for public sector workers which lasted well over ten weeks with no pay. That was during the freezing cold winter picketing everyday. So i know the value of work from all sides private and public but we must get back to a normal life as soon as possible.
I have never worked in the taxi industry, i do have many friends who do and hopefully things turn out ok for you.

So you were furloughed on 80% pay covered by the govt scheme and are now being asked to take a 15% paycut when you go back after 25% of staff have been laid off?

Your employer is taking the piss mate

[NuneatonO's]

So you were furloughed on 80% pay covered by the govt scheme and are now being asked to take a 15% paycut when you go back after 25% of staff have been laid off?

Your employer is taking the p*ss mate

Many appear to be.

My Son works in construction and was emailed a few weeks back; stating if people did not return from (80%) furlough, then their only three options would be:

- Take redundancy.
- Reduce hours to part-time for an indefinite period.
- Agree a new contract, with a 10% pay cut AND no wage increase for FIVE years.

Apparently, according to the email from their Director, he had applied for a £1.2 Million loan from the bank - but he had to prove to them how he'd make cost savings for repayment.

Sounds reasonable to some extent; albeit when pushed with questions about why the loan was required, it transpires that it hadn't even been given.

He and the majority of the 80 others who hadn't worked through furlough, replied in no uncertain terms what he could do with his three preferences.

Welcome to the World of 21st Century Employers.

He had previously persuaded many colleagues to join Unite. I truly can't think of any time in recent history, when it has been more important for people to join a Union.

[Dohnut]

Sadly this situation is inevitable. The economy has shrunk, the amount of work out there has diminished yet staffing levels remain at pre shutdown levels. What do people think is going to happen? Pay people for doing nothing. Won’t happen.

Unemployment will rocket as positions become redundant. Unions will be able to do little to prevent this. In some cases if companies don’t do something then the business will go bust and nobody will have a job. Hardly a better solution.

What would people do here. For example, Retain 90% of staff at temporarily reduced rates to maintain staffing levels or pay fewer staff at normal rates, getting rid of More people.

[Currywurst and Chips]

Sadly this situation is inevitable. The economy has shrunk, the amount of work out there has diminished yet staffing levels remain at pre shutdown levels. What do people think is going to happen? Pay people for doing nothing. Won’t happen.

Unemployment will rocket as positions become redundant. Unions will be able to do little to prevent this. In some cases if companies don’t do something then the business will go bust and nobody will have a job. Hardly a better solution.

What would people do here. For example, Retain 90% of staff at temporarily reduced rates to maintain staffing levels or pay fewer staff at normal rates, getting rid of More people.

Make the billionaire tax evaders pay for it

[Dohnut]

Sadly this situation is inevitable. The economy has shrunk, the amount of work out there has diminished yet staffing levels remain at pre shutdown levels. What do people think is going to happen? Pay people for doing nothing. Won’t happen.

Unemployment will rocket as positions become redundant. Unions will be able to do little to prevent this. In some cases if companies don’t do something then the business will go bust and nobody will have a job. Hardly a better solution.

What would people do here. For example, Retain 90% of staff at temporarily reduced rates to maintain staffing levels or pay fewer staff at normal rates, getting rid of More people.

Make the billionaire tax evaders pay for it

I’m talking about the reality. Your suggestion, no matter how attractive, wont happen.

[NuneatonO's]

Sadly this situation is inevitable. The economy has shrunk, the amount of work out there has diminished yet staffing levels remain at pre shutdown levels. What do people think is going to happen? Pay people for doing nothing. Won’t happen.

Unemployment will rocket as positions become redundant. Unions will be able to do little to prevent this. In some cases if companies don’t do something then the business will go bust and nobody will have a job. Hardly a better solution.

What would people do here. For example, Retain 90% of staff at temporarily reduced rates to maintain staffing levels or pay fewer staff at normal rates, getting rid of More people.

Oh little do you know in thus instance.

The type of concrete construction that my Son works on is only produced by five companies across the UK. Throughout furlough, only his and one other have remianed open - albeit with an obviously reduced workforce. To this end, their order books have never been so full apparently - to the extent that they are now literally being begged to work all through each Weekend.

The problem of course with reducing wages, is not going to really help, is it? Do you honestly think that when it comes to people asking their banks or landlords to similarly reduce their mortgage or rental costs, that they'll get the thumbs up? Do you think people will be able to call privatised utility companies and get them to knock 20% off the bill? Do you think they'll be able to go shopping at the supermarkets and start bartering with the person on the checkout?

An unprecedented amount of working people are already on the breadline. Do you know what percentage of people claiming Universal Credit are actually in work?

Your example of getting tbrough this economic downturn has been proven to fail. Look no further than a decade of austerity; and the abject poverty it has caused for millions of people.

If this Tory Government truly want to source a way for economic recovery, then here it is:
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2020/06/a-prog ... r-recovery

I won't hold my breath.

[Dohnut]

Sadly this situation is inevitable. The economy has shrunk, the amount of work out there has diminished yet staffing levels remain at pre shutdown levels. What do people think is going to happen? Pay people for doing nothing. Won’t happen.

Unemployment will rocket as positions become redundant. Unions will be able to do little to prevent this. In some cases if companies don’t do something then the business will go bust and nobody will have a job. Hardly a better solution.

What would people do here. For example, Retain 90% of staff at temporarily reduced rates to maintain staffing levels or pay fewer staff at normal rates, getting rid of More people.

Oh little do you know in thus instance.

The type of concrete construction that my Son works on is only produced by five companies across the UK. Throughout furlough, only his and one other have remianed open - albeit with an obviously reduced workforce. To this end, their order books have never been so full apparently - to the extent that they are now literally being begged to work all through each Weekend.

The problem of course with reducing wages, is not going to really help, is it? Do you honestly think that when it comes to people asking their banks or landlords to similarly reduce their mortgage or rental costs, that they'll get the thumbs up? Do you think people will be able to call privatised utility companies and get them to knock 20% off the bill? Do you think they'll be able to go shopping at the supermarkets and start bartering with the person on the checkout?

An unprecedented amount of working people are already on the breadline. Do you know what percentage of people claiming Universal Credit are actually in work?

Your example of getting tbrough this economic downturn has been proven to fail. Look no further than a decade of austerity; and the abject poverty it has caused for millions of people.

If this Tory Government truly want to source a way for economic recovery, then here it is:
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2020/06/a-prog ... r-recovery

I won't hold my breath.

If you took the time to read my post I offered no solutions to this issue nor did I endorse the actions being taken. I was stating what is obvious as a consequence of a reducing economy and asking for ideas on actions to avoid the situation we find ourselves in. Not an industry specific question.

So “my way”. I have not suggested any way. Just the inevitable result of lockdown. I’m inviting people to offer solutions. Not a uniquely biased paper which is full of chest beating jargon. But real solutions. This article is full of criticisms, positioning, ideology. But no real solutions. In fact it does not take us forward. Oh the one solution offered, borrow more money.

Oh just another thing. My son lives in Aus but still has a house in London. He rents out. His Long term and decent tenant was in trouble, asked for a rent reduction, significant, and my son and his wife said yes. This is despite my sons business in Aus being significantly damaged, leaving him struggling quite a lot. So he has forgone cash to help his tenant. Not all Landlords are poo poo.

[HeyO]

Profit before people.

[Dohnut]

Profit before people.

Millions of ordinary people rely on a strong economy and stock market. Profits employ people and build pension funds.

[NuneatonO's]

Profit before people.

Millions of ordinary people rely on a strong economy and stock market. Profits employ people and build pension funds.

Oh right.

There was me thinking it was the working PEOPLE that created these profits; and built the strong economy and pension funds.

Now I know who I have to doff my cap to - the stock market.

[tuffers#1]

Profit before people.

Millions of ordinary people rely on a strong economy and stock market. Profits employ people and build pension funds.

Oh right.

There was me thinking it was the working PEOPLE that created these profits; and built the strong economy and pension funds.

Now I know who I have to doff my cap to - the stock market.

Pension Funds usually get pilfered by Sir Richard Green types .

Crooks in White Collars.

[AckneyAwks]

I was encouraged to take out a personal works pension, thank god i did.

[Mistadobalina]

Think it's inevitable that the government is going to pump a lot of money into restarting the economy, on top of all the cash they've spent keeping it on life support during lockdown. In most countries, the biggest impact of COVID will be far and away the economic aspect, but because we've so badly bungled the public health part, we're going to suffer worse than most economically as well.

[Millennial Snowflake]

So you were furloughed on 80% pay covered by the govt scheme and are now being asked to take a 15% paycut when you go back after 25% of staff have been laid off?

Your employer is taking the p*ss mate

Many appear to be.

My Son works in construction and was emailed a few weeks back; stating if people did not return from (80%) furlough, then their only three options would be:

- Take redundancy.
- Reduce hours to part-time for an indefinite period.
- Agree a new contract, with a 10% pay cut AND no wage increase for FIVE years.

Apparently, according to the email from their Director, he had applied for a £1.2 Million loan from the bank - but he had to prove to them how he'd make cost savings for repayment.

Sounds reasonable to some extent; albeit when pushed with questions about why the loan was required, it transpires that it hadn't even been given.

He and the majority of the 80 others who hadn't worked through furlough, replied in no uncertain terms what he could do with his three preferences.

Welcome to the World of 21st Century Employers.

He had previously persuaded many colleagues to join Unite. I truly can't think of any time in recent history, when it has been more important for people to join a Union.

Doubt an employer could legally write into a contract a clause stipulating no wage increase for five years. Unlikely that argument would fly if you threatened to take them to court.

My gf is in a similar situation in being asked to take a 20% pay cut (combined with a 20% reduction in hours that realistically won’t happen) or her employer will make redundancies - realistically she won’t be made redundant so I’ve advised her to tell them to stick it too.

I think a bigger problem is the existence of so many non-jobs in many companies that have resulted in top-heavy mgmt/middle mgmt structures And in some cases entire branches offering completely outdated services making substantial losses and being funded by the rest of the business, meaning no money left over for wage increases.

Think it’s more important for people to:
- know their rights inside out so they don’t let their employer get away with absolute fuckery
- learn new skills for which demand outstrips supply so they don’t find themselves trapped in this situation
- take matters into their own hands and work for themselves — placing your faith in someone else’s hands tends to only end one way

[Rich Tea Wellin]

And for some sort of universal income so we can get robots to do the sh*t bits/stop with the useless jobs that aren’t needed and people can live life to enjoy it, not to work

[Mikero]

Sadly companies are only carrying out their legal duties to maximise profits to the benefit of their shareholders by reducing wages. While we were part of the EU these kinds of practices were illegal, with this government they will now become legal, although how they expect the economy rise if people have less money to spend isn't clear. This kind of thinking is the very thing that started the General Strike all those years ago.

Mikero

[NuneatonO's]

Just wait until the British Workforce loses the protection of the European Working Time Directive; and other EU Employment Laws.

I genuinely suspect that workers rights will be all but extinguished. Pay, contracts, health & safety, holidays, sick leave, maternity leave, etc. will be ignored by employers; who will adopt "take it or leave it" attitude - simply because they can.

If you think that this Tory Government will subsequently introduce new employment laws, aimed at protecting the employeE rather than the employeR, then I think you'll find yourself very, very much mistaken.

Edit: Mikero beat me to it. Can't others see that this is going to happen?

I truly despair for younger people.

[Currywurst and Chips]

Sadly companies are only carrying out their legal duties to maximise profits to the benefit of their shareholders by reducing wages. While we were part of the EU these kinds of practices were illegal, with this government they will now become legal, although how they expect the economy rise if people have less money to spend isn't clear. This kind of thinking is the very thing that started the General Strike all those years ago.

Mikero

It's a line I hear a lot from the opposition and on here. But is there any evidence the government plan to rip up working conditions? Short of a few ministers or former ministers expressing a personal opinion

I was under the impression they were transferring all workers rights into UK law.

[Dohnut]

Profit before people.

Millions of ordinary people rely on a strong economy and stock market. Profits employ people and build pension funds.

Oh right.

There was me thinking it was the working PEOPLE that created these profits; and built the strong economy and pension funds.

Now I know who I have to doff my cap to - the stock market.

There are millions of people whose pensions rely on a strong stock market. People like me in receipt of letter from their pension funds outlining the steps they are taking to mitigate the losses. For some, those close to retirement, the drop in the stock market is devastating, not just now but the rest of their lives. Good, honest workers who will suffer as a result of this issue.

I just wish those who belittle the stock market would get their heads from out of their ideologist bumhole and do some research.

This issue will be managed by the rich, who will use it as an opportunity to buy up cheap shares as a long term investment, they will win. The losers will be the people whose pensions are fecked. Ordinary folk.

[Mikero]

"But is there any evidence the government plan to rip up working conditions?"

If you look back at the Brexit agenda of the far-right section of the Tory Party it was high on their list as well as getting out of the European Court which could have ruled against it.

Mikero

[Currywurst and Chips]

"But is there any evidence the government plan to rip up working conditions?"

If you look back at the Brexit agenda of the far-right section of the Tory Party it was high on their list as well as getting out of the European Court which could have ruled against it.

Mikero

Quite but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Indeed most if not all of what the government has said since has been to the contrary and they have passed/promised legislation to that effect.

[Mikero]

That ignores the 'domestic politics' of the Tory party, look what this self same cabal did to John Major, David Cameron did not call them "swivel-eyed-loons'' for nothing.

Mikero

[Currywurst and Chips]

That ignores the 'domestic politics' of the Tory party, look what this self same cabal did to John Major, David Cameron did not call them "swivel-eyed-loons'' for nothing.

Mikero

Except Johnson has a massive majority so is not at the whim of the ERG any more.

[Mikero]

It is not just the ERG there are many others who will take the same view, some of them in the cabinet. It has ceased to be a 'One Nation party' whatever Boris has said. Is there anything that Prit Patel says or does look like 'one nation'?

Mikero