Out of interest, if a good promising player isn't signed up on a contract extension, but less promising players, say Sling or Clay do, who do you suggest I direct my annoyance? As you clearly dont think it should be the bloke who is charge of the contracts.
You could direct your annoyance at the player and/or his agent for holding out for the best deal, irrespective of where it comes from. Silly billy.
Is the correct answer DuvB, It's not up to the club if a player and his agent decide to go elsewhere on better money, The club can only offer what they can afford, it's been like that since Bosman came into effect power with the player and agents these days.
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:11 pm
The 2nd young talent to come through the club and leave for peanuts under Martin Ling. He's great at his job.
Who was the 1st ?
Koroma. Could and should have gone for a lot more than he did.
Just out of interest how much did he go for and how much do you think he was worth?
You could direct your annoyance at the player and/or his agent for holding out for the best deal, irrespective of where it comes from. Silly billy.
Is the correct answer DuvB, It's not up to the club if a player and his agent decide to go elsewhere on better money, The club can only offer what they can afford, it's been like that since Bosman came into effect power with the player and agents these days.
You seem to be an apologist for incompetence.
Bizarre.
Are you saying the club are incompetent because a player decides he doesn't want to re-sign for us but go elsewhere on more money, I don't think you understand the transfer system if that is the case. Quick to criticise Ling but you haven't got a scooby how things work.
Millennial Snowflake wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:54 am
Amazing how people can spin this and make it Ling’s fault.
Threads like this make me want coronavirus to continue
Bit much...
Out of interest, if a good promising player isn't signed up on a contract extension, but less promising players, say Sling or Clay do, who do you suggest I direct my annoyance? As you clearly dont think it should be the bloke who is charge of the contracts.
You could direct your annoyance at the player and/or his agent for holding out for the best deal, irrespective of where it comes from. Silly billy.
When did Ling originally offer him a deal thats been held up then?
Is the correct answer DuvB, It's not up to the club if a player and his agent decide to go elsewhere on better money, The club can only offer what they can afford, it's been like that since Bosman came into effect power with the player and agents these days.
You seem to be an apologist for incompetence.
Bizarre.
Are you saying the club are incompetent because a player decides he doesn't want to re-sign for us but go elsewhere on more money, I don't think you understand the transfer system if that is the case. Quick to criticise Ling but you haven't got a scooby how things work.
Koroma. Could and should have gone for a lot more than he did.
Do you know definitively how much he was sold for? In any case, he has barely played for Huddersfield. Not even sure if he got on the field with Rotherham. Getting a good wedge no doubt, so good luck to him.
There was talk that they both went for around £250k overall. I don't blame Koroma at all, he needs to the best for him. For a young player with a lot of potential going to a team that had premier league money for a few years, the club should have got £500k at the very very least, even pushing £1m.
If Sotiriou is as good/has as much potential as everyone is claiming him to be then why, with his deal expiring in June, do the same people think we would have easily been able to sign him longer term contract in the first few months of the season? Surely he would have backed this ability/potential and held out for the chance to listen to other clubs to see what the wider market would offer him?
Smendrick Feaselberg wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:57 am
If Sotiriou is as good/has as much potential as everyone is claiming him to be then why, with his deal expiring in June, do the same people think we would have easily been able to sign him longer term contract in the first few months of the season? Surely he would have backed this ability/potential and held out for the chance to listen to other clubs to see what the wider market would offer him?
I think he/it has been mismanaged. If the club like him and rate his potential highly, he shouldn't have gone into the season with 1 year left on his contract and stuck behind Wilkinson, Angol, Alabi, Harrold and Dennis. Give longer contracts to the best young players and trust them with minutes.
It was obvious to me, that as soon as Ruel scored a few goals, he would be a target for higher clubs.
Ling, should have had this boy under longer contract, around the same time he added all the mediocre players, like Ling jnr.
Now with bigger clubs offering him more money, of course the odds of him signing for us, are much reduced.
Is the correct answer DuvB, It's not up to the club if a player and his agent decide to go elsewhere on better money, The club can only offer what they can afford, it's been like that since Bosman came into effect power with the player and agents these days.
You seem to be an apologist for incompetence.
Bizarre.
Are you saying the club are incompetent because a player decides he doesn't want to re-sign for us but go elsewhere on more money, I don't think you understand the transfer system if that is the case. Quick to criticise Ling but you haven't got a scooby how things work.
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:25 pm
Should have been signed up (and played more) last season
Exactly that.
Didn’t get a look in all season, only when that fella from Bournemouth came in he was loaned out to get him ready.
Badly mismanaged by Embleton, so don’t blame him if he clears off. But I’ll be gutted.
On point my friend.
Added to what redo says he only.got a chance as at that time we didn't have anyone else to play. One of the reasons Ross is not qualified to take us forwards.
Right now, with the squad we have led by ross we are bottom half material. With a better manager we are play offs potential.
Even when he got a look, and scored, he was dropped if I remember correctly.
Similar to Marvin, who kept being dropped. Why would you re-sign?
Every game Sotiriou scored in, he started the following game. Not sure where you got that stat from?
Was Marvin really being dropped all the time?
He started the first 13 games in all competitions this season and was only really dropped around October/November time when Fletcher took charge, when Embleton took charge for the second time after Fletchers 29 days, he started him for 12 of the 16 games afterwards. Since the 1-1 draw with Macclesfield in February he'd been out with a shin injury.
He scored at the end of December, out of the starting 12 by 11th September, so he started one game after scoring before being dropped for the next 3 games.
He started about 6-7 games for us all season. Understandable I guess when he was kept out by the prolific strikers we had at the start of the season.
Started 2 games in a row Newport and Walsal away, was sub for the next 3 games, he then started the next 4 games before getting injured and missing the games at Cheltenham and home to Mansfield, before starting our last home game against Cambridge.
Apart from that 3 game spell where he was benched, he has always been given a chance by Ross when he has been fit since Boxing Day from what I can see, or am I missing something?
125 grand seems a lot for someone who has only played a handful of professional matches. If I was a youngster Peterborough would be exactly the kind of club I'd want to join. A great record of playing youngsters and turning them into million pound players.
The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:30 pm
Every game Sotiriou scored in, he started the following game. Not sure where you got that stat from?
Was Marvin really being dropped all the time?
He started the first 13 games in all competitions this season and was only really dropped around October/November time when Fletcher took charge, when Embleton took charge for the second time after Fletchers 29 days, he started him for 12 of the 16 games afterwards. Since the 1-1 draw with Macclesfield in February he'd been out with a shin injury.
He scored at the end of December, out of the starting 12 by 11th September, so he started one game after scoring before being dropped for the next 3 games.
He started about 6-7 games for us all season. Understandable I guess when he was kept out by the prolific strikers we had at the start of the season.
Started 2 games in a row Newport and Walsal away, was sub for the next 3 games, he then started the next 4 games before getting injured and missing the games at Cheltenham and home to Mansfield, before starting our last home game against Cambridge.
Apart from that 3 game spell where he was benched, he has always been given a chance by Ross when he has been fit since Boxing Day from what I can see, or am I missing something?
You're missing the part where he wasn't given a look in all season before scoring on TV for Dover and then scoring a few goals in the National League for them. He came back and the club had no choice but to play him. They should have binned Alabi and Harrold last summer and given Ruel a fair crack. Also, the kid is a centre forward, he was shifted out wide a lot when he played.
The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:30 pm
Every game Sotiriou scored in, he started the following game. Not sure where you got that stat from?
Was Marvin really being dropped all the time?
He started the first 13 games in all competitions this season and was only really dropped around October/November time when Fletcher took charge, when Embleton took charge for the second time after Fletchers 29 days, he started him for 12 of the 16 games afterwards. Since the 1-1 draw with Macclesfield in February he'd been out with a shin injury.
He scored at the end of December, out of the starting 12 by 11th September, so he started one game after scoring before being dropped for the next 3 games.
He started about 6-7 games for us all season. Understandable I guess when he was kept out by the prolific strikers we had at the start of the season.
Started 2 games in a row Newport and Walsal away, was sub for the next 3 games, he then started the next 4 games before getting injured and missing the games at Cheltenham and home to Mansfield, before starting our last home game against Cambridge.
Apart from that 3 game spell where he was benched, he has always been given a chance by Ross when he has been fit since Boxing Day from what I can see, or am I missing something?
So only missed about 30% of games since the first one he started? And only got on once when he was on the bench? And was part of the squad since August but didnt start until about December, because everyone else got injured.
He scored at the end of December, out of the starting 12 by 11th September, so he started one game after scoring before being dropped for the next 3 games.
He started about 6-7 games for us all season. Understandable I guess when he was kept out by the prolific strikers we had at the start of the season.
Started 2 games in a row Newport and Walsal away, was sub for the next 3 games, he then started the next 4 games before getting injured and missing the games at Cheltenham and home to Mansfield, before starting our last home game against Cambridge.
Apart from that 3 game spell where he was benched, he has always been given a chance by Ross when he has been fit since Boxing Day from what I can see, or am I missing something?
You're missing the part where he wasn't given a look in all season before scoring on TV for Dover and then scoring a few goals in the National League for them. He came back and the club had no choice but to play him. They should have binned Alabi and Harrold last summer and given Ruel a fair crack. Also, the kid is a centre forward, he was shifted out wide a lot when he played.
I think you'll find that even I I've acknowledged he should've been given a chance earlier, I did this in an earlier post in this topic:
The Big Shot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:46 pm
The thing is, Sotiriou never really looked like he was capable of breaking through and holding down a regular place in the team whenever I saw him play from his first appearance as a 16 year old back in 2017. He made a few sub appearances but didn't stand out.
Then I remembered that he is still very young - He is still only 19 now. When he signed his first pro contract he was only 17 I think. He was only 18 when he went on loan to Dover last October/November.
I can see why people are annoyed that he wasn't signed up quicker or maybe even longer, but to be honest you can't sign youngsters on long term contracts until they prove themselves to be capable in the first team - Which Sotiriou has done since he has got older and been given more of a chance.
I can understand peoples arguments that he should've played ahead of Alabi earlier - Even I think that, but throwing him in the deep in a promotion season at 18 would've been a huge gamble, we did do that before with Jabo Ibhere back in 2001, but its still alot of pressure for such a young player.
Now he is 19 (20 in December) he is maturing better as a player and I can see why the club have taken their time with him. The obvious danger now is that a bigger club could take him - But that will always happen with us, it will likely happen with Dan Happe as well this summer when he is sold. (If anyone has any money though!!)
£125k wouldn't be a terrible amount for him as he's only start 7 games for us and made 8 sub Appearances with 5 goals.
I can see why the club have been steady with him, but there will always be the danger that being too steady with a youngster means they could slip away.
Are you saying the club are incompetent because a player decides he doesn't want to re-sign for us but go elsewhere on more money, I don't think you understand the transfer system if that is the case. Quick to criticise Ling but you haven't got a scooby how things work.
Ebou Adams.
Adams was never our player though,he chose to go elsewhere on his release from Norwich , I was told that we offered him a bloody good contract and he continually stalled in talking to us, for whatever reason he turned it down and it worked out to be a sh*t move for him didn't it, very poorly advised by his agent. Mind you we didn't do so badly without him did we. I think at the time he signed for Ebbsfleet he made some vague comment about something wasn't right during his stay here but refused to expand on it, his choice. The Ling bashes took it as a perfect opportunity to blame him...par for the course.
Assuming Ruel does end up going again you have to wonder what point there is running the academy. All that development and he may end up leaving after what 10 games or so? Same for Alzate, Dalby etc.
We either get peanuts in compensation or a minimal fee set just above that, which doesn't even pay for the cost of coaching him for all those years to get to the point of being first-team ready.
Compare that to signing a young pro...
Ekpiteta - small fee, two full seasons
Bonne - free, two full seasons plus a decent fee
Especially in the current climate you have to wonder if there's any value in it aside from maintaining the whole "family club" / "community club" charade. Rather see us being vultures to smaller clubs in NL, basically doing a Peterborough but a level below.
gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:45 pm
Assuming Ruel does end up going again you have to wonder what point there is running the academy. All that development and he may end up leaving after what 10 games or so? Same for Alzate, Dalby etc.
We either get peanuts in compensation or a minimal fee set just above that, which doesn't even pay for the cost of coaching him for all those years to get to the point of being first-team ready.
Compare that to signing a young pro...
Ekpiteta - small fee, two full seasons
Bonne - free, two full seasons plus a decent fee
Especially in the current climate you have to wonder if there's any value in it aside from maintaining the whole "family club" / "community club" charade. Rather see us being vultures to smaller clubs in NL, basically doing a Peterborough but a level below.
I have always been an advocate of having a Youth system/Academy, we have produced some really really good kids going back down the years, but rarely trusted them with a run in the team so I'm now coming round to the Idea that scrapping the Academy would be the best option.
Money would be better spent beefing up our scouting in non league looking for the next Marvin or Ruel at that level, the caviat is that the young lads need to get an opportunity at first team level. I agree with all you say gshaw, Peterborough offer a good model to follow but on a lower level.
BiggsyMalone wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:11 pm
The 2nd young talent to come through the club and leave for peanuts under Martin Ling. He's great at his job.
Who was the 1st ?
Koroma. Could and should have gone for a lot more than he did.
Koroma came through before Ling was involved.
Youre blaming Ling for Koroma dhoosing to triple his wages ?
What kind of fool are you who thinks a young kid does not deserve
An opportunity to improve his life financially ?
gshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:45 pm
Assuming Ruel does end up going again you have to wonder what point there is running the academy. All that development and he may end up leaving after what 10 games or so? Same for Alzate, Dalby etc.
We either get peanuts in compensation or a minimal fee set just above that, which doesn't even pay for the cost of coaching him for all those years to get to the point of being first-team ready.
Compare that to signing a young pro...
Ekpiteta - small fee, two full seasons
Bonne - free, two full seasons plus a decent fee
Especially in the current climate you have to wonder if there's any value in it aside from maintaining the whole "family club" / "community club" charade. Rather see us being vultures to smaller clubs in NL, basically doing a Peterborough but a level below.
The Alzate/Dalby etc situation was different to at present, but it's a fair point about the present situation. Orient as a club need to look at our philosophy and decide whether the use of youth players graduating to the first team/first team squad is something we could be more proactive about doing. if not, then review the youth policy.
Koroma. Could and should have gone for a lot more than he did.
Koroma came through before Ling was involved.
Youre blaming Ling for Koroma dhoosing to triple his wages ?
What kind of fool are you who thinks a young kid does not deserve
An opportunity to improve his life financially ?
I see you're still as stupid as you were last time I was on here. Learn to read.
Ling was DoF for 2 years whilst Koroma was there and Koroma signed a new contract in 2018. I'm blaming Ling for not securing the club a better fee for Koroma when he left. I have no problem with Koroma earning more money elsewhere.
He scored at the end of December, out of the starting 12 by 11th September, so he started one game after scoring before being dropped for the next 3 games.
He started about 6-7 games for us all season. Understandable I guess when he was kept out by the prolific strikers we had at the start of the season.
Started 2 games in a row Newport and Walsal away, was sub for the next 3 games, he then started the next 4 games before getting injured and missing the games at Cheltenham and home to Mansfield, before starting our last home game against Cambridge.
Apart from that 3 game spell where he was benched, he has always been given a chance by Ross when he has been fit since Boxing Day from what I can see, or am I missing something?
So only missed about 30% of games since the first one he started? And only got on once when he was on the bench? And was part of the squad since August but didnt start until about December, because everyone else got injured.
Yep only 30%, so that means he'd have started over half of the games he's been fit for since December and his first goal, not too bad for a 19 year old IMO anyway.
I've acknowledged that he could've featured alot sooner, but at the end of the day for youngsters they usually only feature in the first team through injuries and poor form.
I've always wondered with youngsters if they'd have performed to the same level if they wasn't on a long term contract like Sotiriou was - But that is the way I see things.
