Tory Watch

[Mistadobalina]

The really dim are those who think Corbyn would have been any better. He after all very quickly ignored guidelines. Great role model. Worse than Cummings in fact.

I’m not defending Johnson or any other world leader, but people need to look at the global situation and what is happening everywhere. This is a Global issue and quite unique. Mistakes have been made and not only by Johnson. I seem to recall the 500,000 deaths prediction. His actions have saved lives too. That is beyond dispute.

Totally irrelevant question about Corbyn as he isn't leading the Government. That's just a p!ss-poor attempt at deflection.

Johnsons' actions have saved lives? Like what exactly?

- His failure to attend five important Cobra Meeting about the Pandemic?
- His inability to introduce Lockdown when he should have done - to even quote the Tory Sunday Times - ’22 days of dither and delay’.
- Purchasing 250 Ventilators - that didn't work?
- Purchasing 400,000 pieces of PPE - that didn't work?
- Purchasing 3.5 Million Coronavirus Testing Kits - that didn't work?
- Putting elderly patients from hospitals into care homes - without any Covid-19 testing?
- His lack of clear communication?

I could go on. However, you never replied to my list earlier about why you thought Johnson was the best choice for the job.

I doubt that you will respond meaningfully to the above points either.

What people do is look at the U.K. and for sure it’s been far from perfect. But when you look further afield, including protests in Germany over PPE, remember their and Frances naked protest, what becomes obvious that this is a global problem. many Governments have come under fire. And rightly so.

Of course we can reflect on the fact that the NHS never actually ran out of ventilators, never ran out of beds and at no time was the NHS unable to treat infected people in need. Id say that is quite an achievement.

Care homes were given early guidance and the decisions to move people were made by clinicians. Given my personal experience with a care home virus controls, Lax is a word that springs to mind. Long before Covid-19.

Of course there have been screw ups, given the scale of the problem it it unreasonable to assume people involved in procurement won’t make mistakes. Of course some decisions will be wrong. People wanting perfection will be disappointed.

Had we followed the route Sweden adopted the death toll modelling suggested up to 500,000 deaths. Why the strategy was changed. As it was in France. Should we have avoided Herd approach immediately? Who knows. Data was scarce. Was in Aus when this was discussed there at length. Their experts disagreed massively on the best approach. They didn’t shut schools nor go into lockdown quickly. Nobody really knew what was best. Things changed by the day. Decisions taken on the best available data.

The real issue is this has given the Boris bashers an ideal opportunity, the Tory haters a chance to vent their dislike. Picking on the bad whilst ignoring the reality.

Always remember the Financial crisis. People bleating on about it’s not Labours fault, it’s a Global crisis. The same people now most likely who want to ignore the fact that this is a truly global crisis and have a go at the Tories. Funny old world.

A lot of words to skirt around the fact that we have the highest deaths per capita of any country in the world, despite having 2-3 weeks of warning from Italy that this was coming.

[Mikero]

It is deflection by selection and omission, leave out all the bits that show poor leadership and muddled thinking, timescales that were critical and abysmal communication, all in the belief that the voters will swallow it.

Why try and hide behind the 'Global problem' tag now when the Tory party and its minions have spent over a decade blaming the Labour party for what, you now admit, was a Global banking crisis? Now that is stinking hypocrisy.

Mikero

[Dohnut]

It is deflection by selection and omission, leave out all the bits that show poor leadership and muddled thinking, timescales that were critical and abysmal communication, all in the belief that the voters will swallow it.

Why try and hide behind the 'Global problem' tag now when the Tory party and its minions have spent over a decade blaming the Labour party for what, you now admit, was a Global banking crisis? Now that is stinking hypocrisy.

Mikero

Interesting comment and view

I have no doubt the majority of people accept the financial crisis was global. Frankly stupid to suggest otherwise.

I’m just pointing out that some people choose to ignore the Coronavirus pandemic is also a Global crisis and on a massive scale not seen before. The U.K. is not alone fighting this and, along with other countries, are learning as time goes on as data becomes better. A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

It would be great if prominent figures supported the measures. But like a lot of numpties some flout the guidelines and will no doubt blame Johnson when the numbers don’t go down quick enough.

It is an incredibly difficult and complex issue, mistakes will be made, lessons learned I hope. People who expect perfection live in cloud cuckoo land.

[BoniO]

It is deflection by selection and omission, leave out all the bits that show poor leadership and muddled thinking, timescales that were critical and abysmal communication, all in the belief that the voters will swallow it.

Why try and hide behind the 'Global problem' tag now when the Tory party and its minions have spent over a decade blaming the Labour party for what, you now admit, was a Global banking crisis? Now that is stinking hypocrisy.

Mikero

Interesting comment and view

I have no doubt the majority of people accept the financial crisis was global. Frankly stupid to suggest otherwise.

I’m just pointing out that some people choose to ignore the Coronavirus pandemic is also a Global crisis and on a massive scale not seen before. The U.K. is not alone fighting this and, along with other countries, are learning as time goes on as data becomes better. A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

It would be great if prominent figures supported the measures. But like a lot of numpties some flout the guidelines and will no doubt blame Johnson when the numbers don’t go down quick enough.

It is an incredibly difficult and complex issue, mistakes will be made, lessons learned I hope. People who expect perfection live in cloud cuckoo land.

Absolute, complete and total bollocks once again. One thing you can be commended for is your consistency old fart. You're consistently wrong of course. The list of this governments feck ups, incompetence and downright lying about the pandemic is well documented. It's even been headlined in the Tory press for christ's sake. You are just attempting to muddy the water by talking about "global crisis.... all Countries learning, blah, blah....... Johnson going with the science, blah, blah........ numpties flouting the guidelines, Johnson will be blamed blah, blah". It's an oft tried ruse but you've been found out time and time again for doing this. This government, has handled this crisis abominably so far and continues to do so. It is morally corrupt as is anyone who continues to defend it.

[Mikero]

The Corona virus outbreak is not 'determinist', it does not force you to follow any particular strategy. You have choice in what you do and when you do it, hence the different ways it has been tackled around the globe. How successful it has been is mixed, some populations were used to dealing with these things, mask wearing in the Far East for instance. They tend to have better social discipline than we do as well, most here obey the rules but they don't really agree with them and given the choice would ignore them.

Having made a string of what now are seen widely as poor or belated decisions the government and their advisors are not commanding much confidence. How can you expect people to get behind them in this situation? In the end sadly it comes down to the words 'Highest per-capitor death rate in the world'

Mikero

[Mistadobalina]

Prez biz was posting the same kind of guff during the end days of the Bechetti regime. He has a unique knack for defending the well established indefensible.

[Ronnie Hotdogs]

It is deflection by selection and omission, leave out all the bits that show poor leadership and muddled thinking, timescales that were critical and abysmal communication, all in the belief that the voters will swallow it.

Why try and hide behind the 'Global problem' tag now when the Tory party and its minions have spent over a decade blaming the Labour party for what, you now admit, was a Global banking crisis? Now that is stinking hypocrisy.

Mikero

Interesting comment and view

I have no doubt the majority of people accept the financial crisis was global. Frankly stupid to suggest otherwise.

I’m just pointing out that some people choose to ignore the Coronavirus pandemic is also a Global crisis and on a massive scale not seen before. The U.K. is not alone fighting this and, along with other countries, are learning as time goes on as data becomes better. A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

It would be great if prominent figures supported the measures. But like a lot of numpties some flout the guidelines and will no doubt blame Johnson when the numbers don’t go down quick enough.

It is an incredibly difficult and complex issue, mistakes will be made, lessons learned I hope. People who expect perfection live in cloud cuckoo land.

Yes it is a global crisis.

And yes, we are dealing with this worse than any other country in the world. Can you not see that?

[Max B Gold]

Interesting comment and view

I have no doubt the majority of people accept the financial crisis was global. Frankly stupid to suggest otherwise.

I’m just pointing out that some people choose to ignore the Coronavirus pandemic is also a Global crisis and on a massive scale not seen before. The U.K. is not alone fighting this and, along with other countries, are learning as time goes on as data becomes better. A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

It would be great if prominent figures supported the measures. But like a lot of numpties some flout the guidelines and will no doubt blame Johnson when the numbers don’t go down quick enough.

It is an incredibly difficult and complex issue, mistakes will be made, lessons learned I hope. People who expect perfection live in cloud cuckoo land.

Yes it is a global crisis.

And yes, we are dealing with this worse than any other country in the world. Can you not see that?

The Tory scum spent 10 years blaming the financial meltdown in 2008 on Labour. Doughball now says it was an international crisis. That's not what he used to argue.

I see no reason in not continually pointing out that Boris has blood on his hands for his incompetent handling of this crisis by ignoring scientific advice and putting ideology before it.

[NuneatonO's]

A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

Johnson is 'going with the science'.......is he?

Here's an interesting article:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/29/governme ... -12769482/

In particular:
Whether it is having the highest average death rate in the world, the crisis engulfing our care homes, the shocking inability to provide adequate PPE to doctors and nurses, or being far too slow to increase testing capacity, to name just a few, this Government has failed every step of the way.

Now they can add wrongly defending a senior adviser who flouted their own lockdown rules to the list. Throughout this pandemic, the Government has fought back against constructive criticism by at first claiming they have been ‘following the science’. The implication was that decisions had been made on the advice of scientists. But once scientists started speaking out, the Government changed their language to say they were ‘guided by the science’. What exactly does that mean?

There is one big problem with the Government’s approach: we do not really know what the scientific advice has been. The Government’s approach to its scientific advice has been secretive – the membership of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) was only recently released, after much protest, and many scientific documents have been redacted.

It is also expected that, like any Government meetings, Sage meetings should be minuted and released publicly for reasons of accountability. Some have been – but not all of them. This means that much of the science informing or guiding our Government is still not in the public domain. This is concerning and leads me to ask: where are the missing papers, what do they say, and what exactly is this Government trying to hide?

The simple truth is, without visibility of the scientific advice, it will be difficult to corroborate the Government’s assertion that it always follows, or is guided by, the scientific advice.

[Admin]

Gotta hand it to Prez Biz. His contrarian bollocks guff is still reeling 'em in on a daily basis. He's spent the best part of a decade blaming Nooo labour / Gordon Brown for the '08 crash.... what an utter bell.

And he despises the poor and fat. Don't forget that. Particularly those using foodbanks.

[Rich Tea Wellin]

A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

Johnson is 'going with the science'.......is he?

Here's an interesting article:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/29/governme ... -12769482/

In particular:
Whether it is having the highest average death rate in the world, the crisis engulfing our care homes, the shocking inability to provide adequate PPE to doctors and nurses, or being far too slow to increase testing capacity, to name just a few, this Government has failed every step of the way.

Now they can add wrongly defending a senior adviser who flouted their own lockdown rules to the list. Throughout this pandemic, the Government has fought back against constructive criticism by at first claiming they have been ‘following the science’. The implication was that decisions had been made on the advice of scientists. But once scientists started speaking out, the Government changed their language to say they were ‘guided by the science’. What exactly does that mean?

There is one big problem with the Government’s approach: we do not really know what the scientific advice has been. The Government’s approach to its scientific advice has been secretive – the membership of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) was only recently released, after much protest, and many scientific documents have been redacted.

It is also expected that, like any Government meetings, Sage meetings should be minuted and released publicly for reasons of accountability. Some have been – but not all of them. This means that much of the science informing or guiding our Government is still not in the public domain. This is concerning and leads me to ask: where are the missing papers, what do they say, and what exactly is this Government trying to hide?

The simple truth is, without visibility of the scientific advice, it will be difficult to corroborate the Government’s assertion that it always follows, or is guided by, the scientific advice.

Form the outset, it was clear that the government had lined up scientists as patsys for if/when it all went tits up. "well it cant be our thought, we took scientists advice". As soon as they cottoned on, a few of them came out to be clear on what they were saying and calls to publish the advice. Even yday, I dont think it was a mistake that Vallance said that they provide the advice and its up to government to create policy from that.

[Disoriented]

Interesting comment and view

I have no doubt the majority of people accept the financial crisis was global. Frankly stupid to suggest otherwise.

I’m just pointing out that some people choose to ignore the Coronavirus pandemic is also a Global crisis and on a massive scale not seen before. The U.K. is not alone fighting this and, along with other countries, are learning as time goes on as data becomes better. A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

It would be great if prominent figures supported the measures. But like a lot of numpties some flout the guidelines and will no doubt blame Johnson when the numbers don’t go down quick enough.

It is an incredibly difficult and complex issue, mistakes will be made, lessons learned I hope. People who expect perfection live in cloud cuckoo land.

Absolute, complete and total bollocks once again. One thing you can be commended for is your consistency old fart. You're consistently wrong of course. The list of this governments feck ups, incompetence and downright lying about the pandemic is well documented. It's even been headlined in the Tory press for christ's sake. You are just attempting to muddy the water by talking about "global crisis.... all Countries learning, blah, blah....... Johnson going with the science, blah, blah........ numpties flouting the guidelines, Johnson will be blamed blah, blah". It's an oft tried ruse but you've been found out time and time again for doing this. This government, has handled this crisis abominably so far and continues to do so. It is morally corrupt as is anyone who continues to defend it.

Careful. You may get accused of bullying the poor chap despite his reprehensible views.

[tuffers#1]

Closing in on 40,000 dead .

Not a number to be proud of at all.

[Thor]

A fact accepted by Johnson. He is going with the science where available but sometimes that changes too.

Johnson is 'going with the science'.......is he?

Here's an interesting article:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/29/governme ... -12769482/

In particular:
Whether it is having the highest average death rate in the world, the crisis engulfing our care homes, the shocking inability to provide adequate PPE to doctors and nurses, or being far too slow to increase testing capacity, to name just a few, this Government has failed every step of the way.

Now they can add wrongly defending a senior adviser who flouted their own lockdown rules to the list. Throughout this pandemic, the Government has fought back against constructive criticism by at first claiming they have been ‘following the science’. The implication was that decisions had been made on the advice of scientists. But once scientists started speaking out, the Government changed their language to say they were ‘guided by the science’. What exactly does that mean?

There is one big problem with the Government’s approach: we do not really know what the scientific advice has been. The Government’s approach to its scientific advice has been secretive – the membership of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) was only recently released, after much protest, and many scientific documents have been redacted.

It is also expected that, like any Government meetings, Sage meetings should be minuted and released publicly for reasons of accountability. Some have been – but not all of them. This means that much of the science informing or guiding our Government is still not in the public domain. This is concerning and leads me to ask: where are the missing papers, what do they say, and what exactly is this Government trying to hide?

The simple truth is, without visibility of the scientific advice, it will be difficult to corroborate the Government’s assertion that it always follows, or is guided by, the scientific advice.

Form the outset, it was clear that the government had lined up scientists as patsys for if/when it all went tits up. "well it cant be our thought, we took scientists advice". As soon as they cottoned on, a few of them came out to be clear on what they were saying and calls to publish the advice. Even yday, I dont think it was a mistake that Vallance said that they provide the advice and its up to government to create policy from that.

Valance is clearly an intelligent man and not willing to be the fall guy for decisions taken by others. He can see the setup coming and wants to ensure the trap door is slammed shut. The scientists have led this crisis with advice etc. But it’s the government who decide what to do, I just hope that the government is not going to throw them under the bus, but take on board the lessons to be learned and ensure that the same mistakes are not ever made again.

Oh and give the medical people the largest pay rise in public sector history.

[Mikero]

"I have no doubt the majority of people accept the financial crisis was global. Frankly stupid to suggest otherwise. "

What nonsense. The voting public has had it drummed into them for a dozen years, Theresa May and the other sound-bite parrots toured the radio and TV stations for years, with sole message " Boom and Bust" it was probably said a hundred times more than "Get It Done" and that takes some doing.

Lets face it no matter how much you squirm and try to hide, if you voted for this lot you bear some of the blame. Think more before you vote next time.

Mikero

[Max B Gold]

Closing in on 40,000 dead .

Not a number to be proud of at all.

You sure?

[Disoriented]

Closing in on 40,000 dead .

Not a number to be proud of at all.

You sure?

Eh?

[Max B Gold]

Closing in on 40,000 dead .

Not a number to be proud of at all.

You sure?

Eh?

Pardon?

[Disoriented]

Closing in on 40,000 dead - correct
Not a number to be proud of - correct
Tories with copious amounts of blood on their hands - correct

[Max B Gold]

Closing in on 40,000 dead - correct
Not a number to be proud of - correct
Tories with copious amounts of blood on their hands - correct

You sure about it being only close to 40K?

How is this being measured?

[HeyO]

Closing in on 40,000 dead - correct
Not a number to be proud of - correct
Tories with copious amounts of blood on their hands - correct

You sure about it being only close to 40K?

How is this being measured?

Yeah, double it.

[Mikero]

There is going to be an increase in cancer deaths to be factored in as well, referrals to cancer units have plumeted as people find it difficult to get GP appointments and fear going to A&E because of the virus. Most of the cancer and other teams have been redeployed anyway. A friend who needs two knee replacements spoke to the consultant and was told nothing could be done at presant as he had no staff. The consultant himself was banned from Covid duties because of his own health and spent his time answering the phone.

Mikero

[Dohnut]

Gotta hand it to Prez Biz. His contrarian bollocks guff is still reeling 'em in on a daily basis. He's spent the best part of a decade blaming Nooo labour / Gordon Brown for the '08 crash.... what an utter bell.

And he despises the poor and fat. Don't forget that. Particularly those using foodbanks.

Christ. I have said endless times how much of a supporter of new Labour in general and Blair in particular I was. If I say it often enough it may sink in. I’ve voted Labour far more than Conservative. Not Brown though, complete incompetent. But let’s not relive the mess of a decade ago. Browns culpability has been well documented. Not for the crisis but the impact on the U.K. due to his incompetence. Different things!

The problem with the lefty zealots is they look at this crisis through bias, tinted glasses and see only what they want. Completely ignoring any information that fails to support such bias. I prefer to have an open mind in such matters.

Me, I have no party allegiance, a swing voter. Comfortable at calling Corbyn an incompetent idiot and voicing my dislike of Johnson, well before he became PM, go check. I also look at world news to gauge efforts elsewhere. Balanced. Not something far left zealots can tolerate so starts the insults.

The insults I get have more to do with ignorant, biased views than objectivity looking at what really goes on in the round. But I doubt many would see that. So feel free to indulge in insults, it says more about those that do than they realise.

As for food banks, do your research. It’s interesting. I did.

[Mikero]

Bless.

Mikero

[Dohnut]

Bless.

Mikero

Indeed. Though do I give a toss? Noooooooooooooooo.

I’ve long since given up taking note of biased idiots. Water off a ducks back. If people choose to look at life though strong bias that’s up to them.

I’m happy to take a view on what I see. Right or wrong, no based on preconceived ideology or misplaced political ideals.