How do you choose to explain purported Social democrats and internationalists networking with Israeli lobbyists, going on all expenses paid trips to Israel and just generally hobnobbing with ultra-nationalist Israeli "diplomats"?
Because they like free stuff and holidays and getting told they're important.
Corbyn spent years accepting fully comp trips to multiple Arab league states to meet various political groups, he even did a spell on some of their TV shows. I don't think he's working for Hamas/Hezbollah though (although it was a lazy attack line used against him).
Weak initial response followed by whataboutery. Why not just look at the evidence and comment properly.
I answered in the first paragraph bud.
If you've got any evidence of Mossad assets infiltrating the Labour Party yourself I'd love to read it?
Last edited by Currywurst and Chips on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If, during Apartheid, Labour MP's had back and forth to South Africa, mixing with the diplomats over wine and nibbles and then came back and started lobbying on behalf of the Apartheid state and its political wing the Nasionale Party, whilst diminishing the crimes of said state and attempting to undermine anyone who was remotely critical of the state, that would have been totally kosha? Nothing to see here folks. C'mon...
Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:53 pm
If, during Apartheid, Labour MP's had back and forth to South Africa, mixing with the diplomats over wine and nibbles and then came back and started lobbying on behalf of the Apartheid state and its political wing the Nasionale Party, whilst diminishing the crimes of said state and attempting to undermine anyone who was remotely critical of the state, that would have been totally kosha? Nothing to see here folks. C'mon...
They'd be rightly criticised. I wouldn't then make the leap to asserting they're foreign intelligence assets though.
Because they like free stuff and holidays and getting told they're important.
Corbyn spent years accepting fully comp trips to multiple Arab league states to meet various political groups, he even did a spell on some of their TV shows. I don't think he's working for Hamas/Hezbollah though (although it was a lazy attack line used against him).
Weak initial response followed by whataboutery. Why not just look at the evidence and comment properly.
I answered in the first paragraph bud.
If you've got any evidence of Mossad assets infiltrating the Labour Party yourself I'd love to read it?
Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:53 pm
If, during Apartheid, Labour MP's had back and forth to South Africa, mixing with the diplomats over wine and nibbles and then came back and started lobbying on behalf of the Apartheid state and its political wing the Nasionale Party, whilst diminishing the crimes of said state and attempting to undermine anyone who was remotely critical of the state, that would have been totally kosha? Nothing to see here folks. C'mon...
They'd be rightly criticised. I wouldn't then make the leap to asserting they're foreign intelligence assets though.
That's a staggeringly niave perspective given what we know about realpolitic and the importance and prevalence of soft power.
Eat The Rich wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:53 pm
If, during Apartheid, Labour MP's had back and forth to South Africa, mixing with the diplomats over wine and nibbles and then came back and started lobbying on behalf of the Apartheid state and its political wing the Nasionale Party, whilst diminishing the crimes of said state and attempting to undermine anyone who was remotely critical of the state, that would have been totally kosha? Nothing to see here folks. C'mon...
They'd be rightly criticised. I wouldn't then make the leap to asserting they're foreign intelligence assets though.
That's a staggeringly niave perspective given what we know about realpolitic and the importance and prevalence of soft power.
Only if you're a conspiracy loon that sees the Israel bogeyman everywhere
They'd be rightly criticised. I wouldn't then make the leap to asserting they're foreign intelligence assets though.
That's a staggeringly niave perspective given what we know about realpolitic and the importance and prevalence of soft power.
Only if you're a conspiracy loon that sees the Israel bogeyman everywhere
I'm hardly a conspiracy loon. I'm not proposing that the Illuminati are behind it all. I am making the altogether unremarkable claim that a nation state with a very well funded and world famous intelligence service has made friends and influenced people in various organisations in order to head off criticism of the Israeli state's atrocious behaviour. Furthermore, a fact we have to explain is the quite inexplicable lobby group Labour Friends of Israel seemingly working at the heart of the Labour party (a supposedly internationalist and progressive party) and an integral part of the efforts to undermine its pro-internationalist and peace campaigning leader Jeremy Corbyn.
That's a staggeringly niave perspective given what we know about realpolitic and the importance and prevalence of soft power.
Only if you're a conspiracy loon that sees the Israel bogeyman everywhere
I'm hardly a conspiracy loon. I'm not proposing that the Illuminati are behind it all. I am making the altogether unremarkable claim that a nation state with a very well funded and world famous intelligence service has made friends and influenced people in various organisations in order to head off criticism of the Israeli state's atrocious behaviour. Furthermore, a fact we have to explain is the quite inexplicable lobby group Labour Friends of Israel seemingly working at the heart of the Labour party (a supposedly internationalist and progressive party) and an integral part of the efforts to undermine its pro-internationalist and peace campaigning leader Jeremy Corbyn.
Yes they lobby, not disputing that, every nation does it.
Accepting free holidays etc is not the same thing as becoming an asset for foreign intelligence.
We're going around in circles though, so by all means believe Mossad infiltrated Labour to bring down your guy if it makes you feel better.
Only if you're a conspiracy loon that sees the Israel bogeyman everywhere
I'm hardly a conspiracy loon. I'm not proposing that the Illuminati are behind it all. I am making the altogether unremarkable claim that a nation state with a very well funded and world famous intelligence service has made friends and influenced people in various organisations in order to head off criticism of the Israeli state's atrocious behaviour. Furthermore, a fact we have to explain is the quite inexplicable lobby group Labour Friends of Israel seemingly working at the heart of the Labour party (a supposedly internationalist and progressive party) and an integral part of the efforts to undermine its pro-internationalist and peace campaigning leader Jeremy Corbyn.
Yes they lobby, not disputing that, every nation does it.
Accepting free holidays etc is not the same thing as becoming an asset for foreign intelligence.
We're going around in circles though, so by all means believe Mossad infiltrated Labour to bring down your guy if it makes you feel better.
I think you're taking the term "asset" far too concretely. It needn't mean a Le Carré villain who owes their entire allegiance to a foreign power and actively works to pass secrets to said foreign power. That accounts for a tiny minority of intelligence assets. The majority are just useful idiots and mercenaries who are able to be persuaded to lobby, propagandise and smear on behalf of their benefactors.
This is Bears-sh*t-In-The-Woods-News, really. Although it’s important to note the report confirms there was a small amount of anti-semitism amongst the more deranged Palestine/Israel obsessives, I think anybody who was paying attention knew this marginal issue was being cynically weaponised by the centrist factions within the Labour hierarchy, as well as a useful stick to smear Corbyn’s crew within the MSM. And it worked.
There's a lot of really good books out there about the journey from the Labour Representation Committee to Labour PLC. How it went from being the radical organ of the trade unions with the expressed goal of transitioning society from Capitalism to Socialism through the peaceful means of parliamentarianism through its reformist phase (where it argued that Capitalism could be reformed rather than done away with) and now into its complete and total integration into the Capitalist state where even the idea of reform is considered too radical.
I'd start with Ralph Miliband's Parliamentary Socialism: A study in the politics of Labour.
Some crazy stuff being leaked about the deliberate attempts within the Labour Party to oust Corbyn. Not surprising, and obvious at the time to anyone with half a brain but the lengths they have gone to is still astounding.
Tom Watson deliberately delayed kicking Ken Livingston out in order to embarrass Jezza.
I also find it somewhat odd that there isn't the slightest hint of this being reported by the BBC or SKY. Nothing from Kuensberg at all. Its all very strange.
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:00 pm
Some crazy stuff being leaked about the deliberate attempts within the Labour Party to oust Corbyn. Not surprising, and obvious at the time to anyone with half a brain but the lengths they have gone to is still astounding.
Tom Watson deliberately delayed kicking Ken Livingston out in order to embarrass Jezza.
What vile people.
It is astounding, I will give you that. But still you support the people who have betrayed the party and leader. Regardless of what I thought about corbyn, he didn't deserve that.
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:00 pm
Some crazy stuff being leaked about the deliberate attempts within the Labour Party to oust Corbyn. Not surprising, and obvious at the time to anyone with half a brain but the lengths they have gone to is still astounding.
Tom Watson deliberately delayed kicking Ken Livingston out in order to embarrass Jezza.
What vile people.
It is astounding, I will give you that. But still you support the people who have betrayed the party and leader. Regardless of what I thought about corbyn, he didn't deserve that.
It isn't astounding. That is how the pro capitalist right wing have always operated. I've seen it and fought it first hand 35 years ago.
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:00 pm
Some crazy stuff being leaked about the deliberate attempts within the Labour Party to oust Corbyn. Not surprising, and obvious at the time to anyone with half a brain but the lengths they have gone to is still astounding.
Tom Watson deliberately delayed kicking Ken Livingston out in order to embarrass Jezza.
What vile people.
It is astounding, I will give you that. But still you support the people who have betrayed the party and leader. Regardless of what I thought about corbyn, he didn't deserve that.
Apple Wumble wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:00 pm
Some crazy stuff being leaked about the deliberate attempts within the Labour Party to oust Corbyn. Not surprising, and obvious at the time to anyone with half a brain but the lengths they have gone to is still astounding.
Tom Watson deliberately delayed kicking Ken Livingston out in order to embarrass Jezza.
What vile people.
It is astounding, I will give you that. But still you support the people who have betrayed the party and leader. Regardless of what I thought about corbyn, he didn't deserve that.
Whilst I shouldn’t be surprised, seeing as I’ve suspected as much these 4/5 years, it’s still shocking and disgusting seeing it all laid out like this.
Genuinely don’t know where we - the left of centre, supporters of the working class - go from here...
RedO wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:56 pm
Whilst I shouldn’t be surprised, seeing as I’ve suspected as much these 4/5 years, it’s still shocking and disgusting seeing it all laid out like this.
Genuinely don’t know where we - the left of centre, supporters of the working class - go from here...
Best just give up.
After all the Tories are giving out free money to workers soon.
Last edited by Max B Gold on Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
