Stabbing by Roger Ascham School

[Thor]

A 14 years old boy was stabbed outside the school this afternoon and was airlifted to hospital. Motive not yet known, it’s scandalous why so many carry knives now and are not scared to use them. I think the law needs to be tougher on knife crime with stronger sentences handed out.

[StillSpike]

Do you think youths would be less likely to carry blades if there were longer sentences for knife crime? Are they making a calculation about whether to carry a knife based on the possible punishment?

[Thor]

I think they would think twice if you got banged up for 10 years as against say 1 year now.

[StillSpike]

But there's no cops on the street, so who's going to catch them anyway? They're far more likely to get caught by the wrong group of lads (hence needing the "protection" of a knife) than they are to get stopped by the polis.

I really don't think the solution lies in simply increasing the sentences.

[Proposition Joe]

An awful lot - not all but a lot - of kids carry knives because they're sh*t scared out there. As Spike says, the Police are no use since they've been cut to the bone, so they see it as a risk worth taking to protect themselves. Adding a few more years to a sentence and pushing young people further down the path of criminalisation isn't going to do much.

Obviously the whole situation is insane and carrying makes you far more likely to get stabbed yourself, but there you go.

[CreamofSumYungGai]

But there's no cops on the street, so who's going to catch them anyway? They're far more likely to get caught by the wrong group of lads (hence needing the "protection" of a knife) than they are to get stopped by the polis.

I really don't think the solution lies in simply increasing the sentences.

Exactly this,

The sentencing doesn’t come into consideration. 10 years of Tory cuts, these kids don’t expect to get caught at all.

[Mikero]

There are a lot of factors to consider here, mostly down to politicians who don't wont to listen when their policies cause a problem.( because it is never their fault is it. See food banks are nothing to do with Universal Credit) School league tables have for decades forced schools to put their best efforts into teaching those that are going to get the highest grades, the rest are parked for three or four years with supply teachers and kept quiet. It is from this group that the problems come. They are the ones being written off the school rolls and encouraged to bugger-off, it is little wonder that they end up in gangs, what else is there to do?

You cannot really blame the schools for this as the system is forced on them by the government. If only the tables could measure what the school did for the less able people you would be able to see what the school was really like and there would be less problems on the street. This brings us to the second part of the problem which is what happens when they get put in jail. All they will learn is more ways to commit crime. Now time was when they could go to education classes and get back some of the education they had missed and have a chance when they got out but no longer as cuts make the staffing impossible, incidentally leaving many prisoners doing years longer than their original sentences as their release was made conditional on doing the classes. Another smart political idea that one.

A big factor is that we now have generations of people for who school did nothing and who have no expectations for their children either. These are the people the politicians never meet and never consider when making up policies. They probably never vote anyway.

There is appearing a split in the education system where there are a sustantial minority will get nothing out of it. Some think tank will come up with "Industrial Schools" as a solution as to what can be done with them and you can still hear the occasional Westminster fossil bleating about conscription, yeh lets teach them bigger weapons to kill with. Bring back the Workhouses I say.

Mikero

[spen666]

Everyone is a victim.

It's never the perpetrators fault.

Let's all blame politicians.

No, the person to blame is the perpetrator. Let's stop making excuses for violence

[Thor]

The breakdown of the family unit has I believe a lot to say in all of this this surely? Police cuts don’t help, agreed, schooling don’t help, agreed, but where’s the parental responsibility? Surely there’s an issue there?

[Buddy Manucci]

Everyone is a victim.

It's never the perpetrators fault.

Let's all blame politicians.

No, the person to blame is the perpetrator. Let's stop making excuses for violence

Spen being contrary again.

Dohnut/mafioso has been doing this with far more success for years. Give it up Spennymoor/Newcastle fan.

[greyhound]

if do-gooders get there way years to come there will probably be no prisons.
when criminals get locked up I say at least they are out of harms way.IMO lock them up for longer where they can do no more harm.

[Disoriented]

But there's no cops on the street, so who's going to catch them anyway? They're far more likely to get caught by the wrong group of lads (hence needing the "protection" of a knife) than they are to get stopped by the polis.

I really don't think the solution lies in simply increasing the sentences.

Exactly this,

The sentencing doesn’t come into consideration. 10 years of Tory cuts, these kids don’t expect to get caught at all.

I thought the Tories were the party who are tough on crime - tough sentencing, supporting the police and youth services etc.

Who would have thought that our communities actually get more dangerous whenever the Tories get in power and increasingly so as they cling on for approaching a decade.

Who still actually votes for these clowns, apart from the idiots who adopt a ABC policy.

[one o in huntingdon]

School league tables have for decades forced schools to put their best efforts into teaching those that are going to get the highest grades, the rest are parked for three or four years with supply teachers and kept quiet. It is from this group that the problems come. They are the ones being written off the school rolls and encouraged to bugger-off, it is little wonder that they end up in gangs, what else is there to do?
Mikero

Completely disagree, a small fortune is spent by schools on those with a "condition"
Classroom and teaching assistants, readers and writers for exams, transport to and from school to name but a few.
In fact its pupils that are above average get no help to develop their skills.
These days if kids are naughty or a bit thick there has to be a named condition for it.

[spen666]

Everyone is a victim.

It's never the perpetrators fault.

Let's all blame politicians.

No, the person to blame is the perpetrator. Let's stop making excuses for violence

Spen being contrary again.

Dohnut/mafioso has been doing this with far more success for years. Give it up Spennymoor/Newcastle fan.

.f*CK me.

Sorry for having an opinion.

Grow up or f*cK off. It's a message board. I am allowed to express my opinions without approval from idiots like you.


The only person to blame is the perpetrator. They made the choice to go out with a knife.

If the best you can do is make jibes at my town of origin, it says a lot about you

You haven't posted anything that disagrees with what I post. You just post personal attacks on me.
Says a lot about you

[The Mindsweep]

Many gangs who use knives don't always carry them but stash them in a safe place where they get them when needed. So many that have then on them when stopped and searched are the every increasing number who feel they need one in case someone attacks them. Hence the increase in stabbings as there are more knives about.

One thing is for sure, if you look at the overwhelming evidence, loads out there, tougher sentences and even a greater police presence, does little to reduce the use. Fear of being attacked and more importantly, the lack of opportunities for youngsters and the feeling they need money to have the latest must have tech or gadget or clothing, make them easy targets for enlistment by criminal gangs.

[Mikero]

"Completely disagree, a small fortune is spent by schools on those with a "condition""

Indeed it is, although that is beginning to break down. It is the group just above this level that I was talking about, those that are expected to gain a couple of Es or Fs at at best. They include the late developers, the 'summer babies', the bullied and often the overweight. Collectively they lack any kind of confidence because at some point they were told they were thick and they beleived it.

Mikero

[one o in huntingdon]

"Completely disagree, a small fortune is spent by schools on those with a "condition""

Indeed it is, although that is beginning to break down. It is the group just above this level that I was talking about, those that are expected to gain a couple of Es or Fs at at best. They include the late developers, the 'summer babies', the bullied and often the overweight. Collectively they lack any kind of confidence because at some point they were told they were thick and they beleived it.

Mikero

What you actually said was "forced schools to put their best efforts into teaching those that are going to get the highest grades"

No they don't, the most gifted pupils are just left to get on with it, bored rigid most of the time.
Streaming is a swear word and god forbid anyone doesn't get some sort of grade, more awards than Muttley

[Redcard]

Spen666 you are spot on. It’s not rocket science , anyone caught in a public place with a knife which is not part of a recognized tool kit necessary for their employment , and a legitimate reason for having it with them at that time should get 10 years imprisonment. On the issue of enforcement it’s ludicrous that we spend more on foreign aid than on the police. Again the answer is obvious.

[one o in huntingdon]

Double post

[Max B Gold]

Same old arguments being trotted out again on a subject that gets discussed on here frequently.

Same old rubbish being spouted by hard of thinking instinctive right whingers. Always looking for the easy solution that doesn't involve them in doing something themselves or recognising that as members of society they too are part of the problem.

Same old liberal arguments being put forward offering expensive, effective solutions but again somebody else is being tasked with doing it. Usually professionals of one kind or another.

The problem is of course the economic system called capitalism and the only solution is to replace it ourselves and build a society that values all of its citizens and where mutual respect overcomes tribalism.

[Proposition Joe]

Pretty much what Max said.

"Tougher sentencing! Longer prison sentences! More prisons!"

Which never, ever works. It's proven not to work, time and time again. So what do the right wingers do? Examine studies, look for a different way of doing things? Look at bigger picture causation?

"Tougher sentencing! Longer prison sentences! More prisons!"

Absolutely thick as pigshit.

[Andersonitis]

Bring back hanging, really quite simple,
It’ll stop overnight, plus this debate.

[Disoriented]

Bring back hanging, really quite simple,
It’ll stop overnight, plus this debate.

[Esteban]

Everyone is a victim.

It's never the perpetrators fault.

Let's all blame politicians.

No, the person to blame is the perpetrator. Let's stop making excuses for violence

Spen being contrary again.

Dohnut/mafioso has been doing this with far more success for years. Give it up Spennymoor/Newcastle fan.

.f*CK me.

Sorry for having an opinion.

Grow up or f*cK off. It's a message board. I am allowed to express my opinions without approval from idiots like you.


The only person to blame is the perpetrator. They made the choice to go out with a knife.

If the best you can do is make jibes at my town of origin, it says a lot about you

You haven't posted anything that disagrees with what I post. You just post personal attacks on me.
Says a lot about you

A neutral coming on a Leyton Orient message board and telling others to “f*ck off”! Couldn’t make that up! Are you as rude to people on the Newcastle United message board (which I assume you’re also a member of) or is it only fans of teams you don’t actually support who you are so rude to?

As for your tedious attempts at being a contrarian, just give it up. You’re really bad at it.

Nobody is going to bite because you’re so blatantly after a reaction. Also, nobody is suggesting that it isn’t the fault of the perpetrators so your point is completely moot.

If you’re going to try and be a contrarian at least practice it first.

[Proposition Joe]

Bring back hanging, really quite simple,
It’ll stop overnight, plus this debate.

Proving me right in the very next post was awfully kind of you.